Public scolding of the Worst President Ever

[Cosira]

Bravo, Keith Olbermann.

http://www.matthewgood.org/2008/05/olbermanns-recent-special-comment/

[Joeking]

It strikes me that every president since Madison has been called "the worst president ever" by someone.

If you didn't live under all of them, I'm not sure you can make that call.

But then, every single president has had detractors, assassination -plots- if not attempts, and etc.

Kind of pointless to bash one just 'cause you can.

[Achréiøs]

Man, that is a pretty commentary. I mean I don't necessarily disagree with his opinion but I'm not really sure if that does any good. I guess its carthartic

If you didn't live under all of them, I'm not sure you can make that call.

This is fundamentally dishonest reasoning. I don't have to go to Zimbabwe and live there in order to know that its economy and government are in the shitter, and there is plenty of good information about periods of American history to make a decent comparison to the present.

Kind of pointless to bash one just 'cause you can.

Do you honestly not find legitimate grounds to criticize Bush? I'm hard pressed to find any area that he doesn't deserve criticism. I mean this is an administration that has torn apart constitution protections, suspended habeas corpus and due process rights, flaunted any number of international treaties it helped draft, set up and flatly defended extrajudicial prisons, kidnapped and tortured citizens of allied nations (nevermind the thousands of others), squandered billions of dollars, stretched the armed forces and then fucked over soldiers and veterans.

America has had some pretty terrible presidents in its time but holy shit its like Bush is trying to beat them to the bottom.

[Targan]

Well look on the bright side. We live in enlightened enough times that citizens of the nations that the USA is most closely allied with (mine for example) realise that just because you guys have one President that sucks doesn't change the fact that most Americans are good and decent people.

[Firefly]

Joe should shut up. He's always bragging about being a Dual Citizen with the UK. If you don't like it here in America, GTFO!

[Sideus]

I knew this thread would be a piece of shit as soon as I read the title

[Aran]

Hey! If I bash the president can I be cool and edgy too?!

[Joeking]

My point was that if you were to talk to the correct newspaperman during the so-and-so administration, he'd probably be able to prove how so-and-so was the worst president ever, while the other guy over here would be able to prove how so-and-so was actually the greatest president in history.

Presidential bashing is stupid in its entirety.

The president's a fuckup?  So were lots of others, and none of them was perfect.

I haven't seen a -good- president in my lifetime, albeit as short, comparatively, as it may be.

In short...the phrase "Christ, will you give it a rest" comes to mind.

Just another type of flaming.

[Ripraf]

Only thing I really listened to in this video was the ending line, "SHUT THE HELL UP"... I was so happy someone had the guts to go on Live TV and say it.

[Wildfire]

Heh. =p Doesn't he do this monolouge... every episode?

I mean, it's right. But I'm Canadian. So it's not like I have to be ashamed.

[Jason Baane]

Just another Liberal who wants to pull out of Iraq. These people throw out claims like "hurrdurr this is just like Vietnam." In that case, I guess it should be expected that liberals want to pull out of Iraq - I suppose it makes them hot in the pants that, like the Vietnam conflict, ten times more people will be killed in the two years after we pull out than in the years during the occupation.

Of course, the democrats will never come out and say that their champion - President Clinton - allowed the September 11th attacks to happen, and was involved in his own little war on terror called Operation Infinite Reach. The difference? Bush is actually getting shit done. Clinton succeeded in killing about 40 terrorists and untold numbers of civilians at the cost of some of our most expensive military hardware.

[Achréiøs]

The president's a fuckup?  So were lots of others, and none of them was perfect.

But Clinton...

This is a fabulously stupid argument. America has had terrible presidents, so its ok if this one is terrible as well? Is it really that hard to aspire to a good president, or just a mediocre president? Maybe people should, I don't know, learn from history and try to actually improve the situation or something radical like that.

[Denial]

*Swaps argument to vi versus EMACS*

[Jason Baane]

This is a fabulously stupid argument.

You deliberately chose to misread my statement. Way to go. The fact of the matter is that liberals keep calling Bush the 'worst president evar" and then champion the president who came before him as if he was some great symbol of American pride.

Honestly, I did not listen to most of this "public scolding" the first time around. But now that I am giving it my serious attention, it's more and more obvious that this guy is just a dumb-ass who is taking this opportunity to piss all over Bush because he's on the way out and he knows that all the high school emo-kids who have nothing better to do than hate everything for no reason will cheer at his shitty little display of bravado.

[SixStringSamurai]

I'm not a Liberal, I'm a person.

Bush has mishandled diplomatic relations, he's made a mockery of basic civil liberties and he's losing popularity within his own constituency, which should tell you something.

Clinton made mistakes too, no doubt about that. If you want to talk about Operation: Infinite Reach, then feel free to. Point out how we bombed an area we thought was producing chemical weapons, and was linked to Osama Bin Laden without the solid evidence, using the bombings of our embassies as an excuse. Then say with a straight face that Bush hasn't repeated that exact same mistake, using a recent tragedy to mount a costly reprisal against targets for which we have minimum good intelligence.

[Furr]

The difference? Bush is actually getting shit done. Clinton succeeded in killing about 40 terrorists and untold numbers of civilians at the cost of some of our most expensive military hardware.

And Bush managed to make sure about 150 THOUSAND civilians are now dead because of UNITED STATES AIR FORCE bombs. Sure, a lot of insurgents and terrorists are killed under Bush' administration. But fancy this: For each terrorist killed, 2 more will step up.

The War On Terror is a fuckup of insane dimensions. An army cannot EVER fight terrorists. Because terrorists are such a diffuse target, that you will never hit it. Terrorists aren't obvious targets. Anyway. Bush is a fuck up. Worse so than Clinton, worse so that Nixon, worse so than ANY other US President.

Prove me wrong, please. I beg of you. Tell me, with legit proof, that the Bush administration has done any good, to counter for all the crap.

That's just my twopence for this gig.

[Cattie]

Just another Liberal who wants to pull out of Iraq. These people throw out claims like "hurrdurr this is just like Vietnam." In that case, I guess it should be expected that liberals want to pull out of Iraq - I suppose it makes them hot in the pants that, like the Vietnam conflict, ten times more people will be killed in the two years after we pull out than in the years during the occupation.

Of course, the democrats will never come out and say that their champion - President Clinton - allowed the September 11th attacks to happen, and was involved in his own little war on terror called Operation Infinite Reach. The difference? Bush is actually getting shit done. Clinton succeeded in killing about 40 terrorists and untold numbers of civilians at the cost of some of our most expensive military hardware.

Are you serious?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you're too busy stroking the Republican Party to orgasm to bother reading a history book.

One.  Clinton saw us have a NATIONAL BUDGET SURPLUS.  Best economic setup in DECADES.  Bush has us in one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression.  Yes, unemployment is low, but the American dollar is at rock-bottom for value, and the national living wage is a fucking joke.

Two.  IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11!!!!!  That's a whole OTHER country with a whole OTHER agenda that is in NO WAY related to Iraq.

Three. Clinton had been out of office almost a full YEAR before 9/11 even happened.  Considering that Bin Laden (Who, BTW, AMERICA put into power during BUSH SENIOR's time....hmmmm....) told us it was going to happen DURING Bush's reign of terror, who REALLY allowed it?

Right now there are thousands of OUR TROOPS dead, not to even mention civillian costs, because Bush had some Oedipal need to finish Daddy's fuckup.  Saddam Hussein was a bad man, yes. But he was a Bad Man in his OWN COUNTRY killing his OWN PEOPLE, so fuck them.  Let him kill his people if he wants to.  We need to focus on OUR country. Until there are not children starving in "the greatest nation on earth", we have NO BUSINESS meddling in other countries, especially when the MAJORITY of that country is saying "No. Srsly.  Get the fuck out, we don't LIKE you."

[Rosery]

Are you serious?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you're too busy stroking the Republican Party to orgasm to bother reading a history book.

One.  Clinton saw us have a NATIONAL BUDGET SURPLUS.  Best economic setup in DECADES.  Bush has us in one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression.  Yes, unemployment is low, but the American dollar is at rock-bottom for value, and the national living wage is a fucking joke.

Two.  IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11!!!!!  That's a whole OTHER country with a whole OTHER agenda that is in NO WAY related to Iraq.

Three. Clinton had been out of office almost a full YEAR before 9/11 even happened.  Considering that Bin Laden (Who, BTW, AMERICA put into power during BUSH SENIOR's time....hmmmm....) told us it was going to happen DURING Bush's reign of terror, who REALLY allowed it?

Right now there are thousands of OUR TROOPS dead, not to even mention civillian costs, because Bush had some Oedipal need to finish Daddy's fuckup.  Saddam Hussein was a bad man, yes. But he was a Bad Man in his OWN COUNTRY killing his OWN PEOPLE, so fuck them.  Let him kill his people if he wants to.  We need to focus on OUR country. Until there are not children starving in "the greatest nation on earth", we have NO BUSINESS meddling in other countries, especially when the MAJORITY of that country is saying "No. Srsly.  Get the fuck out, we don't LIKE you."

I suppose being canadian I have no right to say alot, but I feel the need to disagree with one point. Im not fond of bush from what I hear and I am even less fond of the idea of war, since my brother is in the reserves and it scares me shitless to think of him fighting. But Saddem did need to be removed, thats just my opinion, maybe the UN should have done something, maybe Bush should have kept his nose out of it. But I feel it was still a good choice to remove that mad man from power, thats my only disagreement really on what you said.

[Cattie]

I can think of others that need removing more.  Saddam was bad. I'm not saying he wasn't.  But srsly.  Let's take a look at some of the worse leaders who have more against us and are ACTIVELY trying to get nukes to get rid of us.
Yeah, Kim Jong Il.  I'm lookin' at you.
THEN let's talk about who needs getting gone.  We are NOT the world police.  Not not.  We can't afford to be, and we're doing a damned bad job of it.

[SixStringSamurai]

If only there was some sort of world court that we could go to when we had proof that another country was violating human rights. If only there was some sort of uniting international body that every country had to be held accountable to listen to, rather than just invading other countries with impunity.

[Jason Baane]

Prove me wrong, please. I beg of you. Tell me, with legit proof, that the Bush administration has done any good, to counter for all the crap.

If you don't think that Saddam Hussein being out of power is good, then that says all that needs to be said about you.

I can think of others that need removing more. Saddam was bad. I'm not saying he wasn't. But srsly. Let's take a look at some of the worse leaders who have more against us and are ACTIVELY trying to get nukes to get rid of us.
Yeah, Kim Jong Il. I'm lookin' at you.
THEN let's talk about who needs getting gone. We are NOT the world police. Not not. We can't afford to be, and we're doing a damned bad job of it.

And that puts us in direct conflict with China. Now, you pretend to give a shit about 4k American soldiers killed like all liberal pieces of shit do. So why would you even suggest that we go to war with North Korea?

[Cattie]

I don't recall saying I gave a shit about anything at all.  That would be you placing your own expectations on me.  Welcome to the world of fail.

Those people went to war knowing they were likely to die.  That was their choice.  I don't feel bad.  I think they're stupid, if noble, for attempting it.  I feel badly for their families because they went to death for NO REASON.

I didn['t say we should go after North Korea, either.  Learn to read.

I said if we're going to randomly attack people for no fucking reason, there are better people to do it to.  Like North Korea, who's BROADCASTED that they fully intend to bomb the fuck out of us.

Faaaail. Fail fail fail.  You fail. Now go bury your head in the sand and squawk to yourself that we're doing something good and noble, like all little brainwashed pseudo-soldiers.  Meanwhile, civilians will still die cursing our country, begging us to leave.

[Furr]

If you don't think that Saddam Hussein being out of power is good, then that says all that needs to be said about you.

At the cost of over 150.000 civilians? Lovely price that is.
And, I'm not saying it isn't a good thing, but you gotta weight the price of his removal.

Shithead.
Now sit the fuck down, and shut the hell up.

[Soja]

Let's not forget that Abraham Lincoln also wiped his ass with Constitutional rights of habeas corpus. That, too, was an unpopular decision. His reasoning: the same, to "protect the Union."

He's not really derided so much nowadays, even after that ghastly transgression of Constitutional rights.

Two--enough about Clinton. He was enough for my lifetime. The Surplus was mostly a broadcasted myth--we were in trillions of dollars in debt back then, as we are still today. It's not going away any time soon.

As for dropping Iraq like so many lefties and hippies want us to, that would be nice, if we could. But here is what I project should that happen.

1) United States recalls all security forces to the boot.
2) Within months, Iraqi government destabilizes and collapses.
3) Power vacuum invites powergrabs and the establishment of local caliphates.
4) Youth growing up in this unrest--those who survive it--look for a scapegoat.
5) They find it in the Stars'n'Stripes.
6) Repeat the cycle of strike-counterstrike.

Iraq may not have been an enormous threat to the United States after the first Gulf War, but the kind of social situation that now exists there is the kind of breeding ground that produces enmity for a nation in an entire generation. Running away from the mess will only aggravate things.

Also, plans for unseating Saddam Hussein have long existed, since 1998. Legislation was passed under President Clinton stating, more or less, that they were going to provide aid to rebellions and insurgencies aiming to get rid of Saddam short of actual direct intervention. Clinton was basically funding a proximity war--probably the very people who are now killing our soldiers as thanks.

In all, I think Bush has been merely all right. His deeds are of the sort that will probably be judged by history. There was great loathing for Ronald Reagan back in his day and now he is one of the most venerated Presidents in recent memory.

[Cattie]

Ivan, I hope you don't take it personally if I never speak to you again.