A question to those of you who LIKE this sort of crap

[Dalton]

anybody can feel free to give their input. This question is, however, mainly geared toward fans of this genre. I want to know why it is that you like these things.

this genre is something I can only think to label as "Poorly Written Mary Sue Fanfic That Somehow Made It Big". Examples include Twilight, Charmed, Xena: Warrior Princess, and a few other franchises whose names aren't quite coming to me right now. Let's face it: I don't watch this crap, so why should I know what it's called? all I know about it is what I've seen and heard thanks to my little sister.

so without further ado

Protagonists
Protagonists are invariably females. They always contain an unnatural mixture of personality aspects. It's like the author tries to make it so every possible teenage girl on earth can identify with the protagonist. they'll spend half an episode being emo and shy and self-critical while all their friends go on and on trying to cheer them up so they don't kill themselves, and the other half the episode flashing wry grins while making sarcastic quips toward their antagonists and 'pwning' them with 'wit'.

While the character in Twilight apparently has no special powers, and Xena's abilities come in the form of insane martial arts, the vast majority of these shows and books has the protagonist as a witch who throws around the word "powers" more often than Mudkip appears on 4chan on any given day. "So and so stole my powers," "I don't have enough powers to save my boyfriend," "My daughter grew to the age of 18 in a single day but is now immortal and has lots of powers," etc

Antagonists
The antagonists are almost invariably males. Usually either demons, vampires, or male witches. Often but not always prettyboys. Often they have some sort of secret crush on the protagonist and, despite being immortals, are incredibly immature because their response to being rejected by the protagonist is to constantly attempt to kill her, kidnap her boyfriend, steal her baby, and alienate her from her friends. Of course in the end true friendship shines through and either the protagonist or one of her friends/lovers BSes a new magic power and saves the day.

Relationships
Despite the protagonists usually having boyfriends and getting knocked up every other week, most of these stories have strong, almost undeniable lesbian undertones. The boyfriend is usually insignificant to the plot, except for the occasional episode where he is kidnapped and needs help, or where their relationship strains because the protagonist is being a bitch. But even when it's the protagonist's fault that their relationship went sour, leave it to the boyfriend to come in at the end of the episode with jewelry, poetry, and apologies. Poor guy. I'm sure he knows it's not his fault, but with how often he gets kidnapped I guess he's right to want to be on a witch's good side at any cost.

Occasionally these stories take a small twist in which the boyfriend's powers are superior to the protagonists. However, there is always some huge flaw thrown in there, because the boyfriend always has to fit in with the show's overall theme of "all men are inferior". In these cases the boyfriend is often either suicidally depressed or prone to rage, and often his family is also made up of witches/vampires who have the same powers as him and want to kill the protagonist for some stupid reason so he constantly has to fight his family to save her.

Speaking of babies, is there any more overused, cliche subject in these stories? The child ends up kidnapped by the antagonist in like half of the episodes. In some stories it grows up at normal speed, but in others it reaches adulthood almost instantly but upon reaching the physical and mental maturity of an 18 year old it seems to freeze in time and become immortal. _{Edit: I just overheard the chick from Charmed talking about how her baby is kidnapped by a demon and he has like magical powers so he'll be able to handle himself, but he can no doubt sense the evil and it mght upset him. Okay. My sister listens to the TV loudly.}

Twilight is particularly weird about it. Jacob, a werewolf that disparately wants Bella, ends up dating her six year old daughter instead. Because the daughter hid adulthood/immortality five years into life. Ah, the benefits of being half vampire!

The protagonist always has a best friend with similar personality whose sole purpose in the show seems to be constantly bailing her out of her depression bouts every time something goes wrong so that she'll stop cutting her wrist and go save her baby.

Aside from the protagonist's friends and boyfriend, there's usually an array of additional men who pine for her affection for some reason even though she's an emo git and there's plenty of better women in the world. Often these other men become antagonists as their love is rejected so they start trying to break the couple up by killing off the boyfriend or kidnapping the baby or something.

So if you're one of those people who reads these books and fanfics or watches these TV shows, indulge me. Tell me what's so good about it because all I see is garbage. Anybody else, feel free to add your input as well.

tl;dr chick shows suck, discuss.

[Elijah]

Wtf dude, it's Xena. All (.... well, most) guys love watching scantily clad women running around killing things.

[Xachariah]

What I remember of Xena was kinda boring. But I was, like, thirteen or younger at the time and I didn't really start being like "HELL YEAH GIRLS!" until I was seventeen. > _ >

[Crysta]

I liked Xena because she wasn't a pussy. And I don't recall her going emo very often. Getting pissed off seems to be her natural response.

There's lesbian undertones, definitely, but most people don't consider that a downside lolololol.

[Xachariah]

Mmm. Rrrrrrrrrrrrresbians.

[Gyrit]

I watched Xena because of a few simple factors. I like mythology, I like violence/martial arts, I like attractive women and of course, who doesn't like lesbians? Also, her response was mainly to kill things that annoyed her. And while she could undoubtedly beat on many an average man (and sometimes Ares) Hercules was generally able to take her.

Buffy, as I understand it, came about from Joss Whedon watching horror movies and going "What if the blonde cheerleader kicked the monster's ass?" Hence another show I watched for many reasons listed above.

Basically, these shows are on a whole "Girl power" trip, because let's be honest, a lot of shows and videogames display women the same way these shows portray men.

Charmed, from what I've seen of it, it god awful. There's no excuse for something that bad. And I can't wait not to see Twilight. But really, if you hate this crap, don't watch it. It works for me and it will work for you too, I'm sure of it.

[Soja]

Xena was definitely not a Mary Sue. Nor was it meant to be taken dead-seriously. It was obviously campy at times (most) for a reason.

Twilight? Goddamn it, my sister's read the whole series three times in a month. From what I've read of it, it's something I'll pass on.

Let's add Eragon to that list. Eragon is a terrible Mary Sue. Or rather, Marty Stu. His little elven girlfriend even hails from a race of Mary Sues. If there's one thing to remember in Alagäesia, it's this: elves are better than you, always.

[Dalton]

Are you adding Eragon as what I was describing in my first post, or just as a Mary Sue? Keep in mind that my post describes a problem that is far worse than Mary Sue herself.

[Crysta]

Eragon is a fusion of all the bad fantasy cliche's.

But I don't know if it falls under Dalton's rant.

[Dalton]

I actually had Eragon recommended to me recently so I am curious to hear the anti-Eragon shpiel. I kow nothing about it at this point as I haven't even read so much as a review or a single page of the book

[Crysta]

The first book is tolerable...

But the others holy shit you can see it coming from a mile away.

[Soja]

this genre is something I can only think to label as "Poorly Written Mary Sue Fanfic That Somehow Made It Big"

That is exactly what Eragon is, though. Whether or not it's a fanfic is debatable; there are accusations of Paolini being too "inspired" by Tolkien, if you know what I mean. The more cynical detractors describe it as "Star Wars' story with Lord of the Rings' setting."

I encourage reading it if only to gain your own perspective on it.

[Dalton]

I shall read it then sometime, and see what it's like. I'll borrow it from the guy who recommended it to me

[Soja]

The first book is okay. It's riddled with clichés, but it's all in the execution. It's pretty enthusiastic and interesting starting out. You have high hopes for the next book in the series, which by that time becomes unreadable. First of all, everything that happens can be foreseen with a derisive, as in you hope that's not what's going to happen because it would be so lame but it does happen anyway. And the book is stuffed to the brim with purple prose. The editor clearly did not do his her job.

[SixStringSamurai]

I'm sorry, what did you say about Xena?

That's right. Xena had Bruce Campbell. Not all the time, but enough that I could tune in and get either lesbian undertones or Bruce Campbell.

[Chip]

Ah Bruce Campbell. You shall remain forever handsome and unsaggy so long as copies of Xena remain in circulation

Fun Trivia: Both Sam Raimi, Ted Raimi, and Bruce Campbell graduated from my highschool, and attended the same time around as my father. <3

I would definetly NOT call Xena a Marry Sue. Gabrielle shows a slight tendancy for the roll, but hardens quite a bit after Calisto's Return.

I'm avoiding Twilight and everything to do with it like the plague. Mostly because I'm afraid my friends will kill me if I end up liking it. There is a stupid 14 year old's tastes lurking somewhere in the back of my head. Kiiilll iiiiiit.

Eragon is what it is, a fairly decent attempt by a more devoted than usual highschool student. Riddled with mistakes, and not the most original of fantasy stores. Let face it, there are few stories you can list that don't dig their roots from both Star Wars and LoTRs.  But I can name worse offenders who are claimed to be original. But end point, yes Eragon IS a marry sue. His foster brother is a much more interesting character.

[Tsukiki]

I have to say:

I read all four books, because I was sick of being told 'You can't think it's awful if you haven't read it.'

Well, kids, I have.  And the abercombie, vegetarian vampires still suck ass.

[Ramidel]

Xena's definitely not a Mary Sue; I agree with the bar on that. X:WP was, at least in the early seasons, a highly campy hot-amazon-short-skirt show and Xena got away with being That Damn Good without being stupidly Mary Sueish. (The later seasons just leached the cool out, what with the gods dying off and the whole game changing to focus around the new Chri...uh, Elijan thingy.)

And...ugh, Eragon. Paolini's a great writer for his age, sure. But -damn-, the guy ripped off the entire fricking -plot- of his first movie from Star Wars, almost to the -letter-; set it in LotR, and threw in Pern whenever it seemed cool. (To be fair, Elves really -should- come across as Mary Sues, at least -at first look-. It's when they really are, and they get their Sueness paraded in everyone's face...yeah.)

[Ytts]

(The later seasons just leached the cool out, what with the gods dying off and the whole game changing to focus around the new Chri...uh, Elijan thingy.)

Ever since Narnia, I have refused to read or watch anything that even attempts to do that. As a theme, it is tired and dull and painfully insipid - moreso than even the already painful-to-endure retelling of YET ANOTHER STORY IN WHICH AN ANCIENT, GRACEFUL AND LONG-LIVED RACE OF ELVES IS DYING OUT AND BEING REPLACED BY HUMANS archtype that haunts a lot of fantasy.

Dull! In fact, so dull, there is only one thing to do but create another thread for it.


http://nexxushost.com/forums/index.php?topic=62036.0

[Gyrit]

I saw a Narnia movie. All the kids were scolded for having rational thoughts in their heads and not jumping off a cliff because the 8 year old thought she saw the lion down there. The lion who apparently disappeared for a thousand years while Narnia burned just to make a point. Fuck Aslan.

[Hilda]

I shall read it then sometime, and see what it's like. I'll borrow it from the gay who recommended it to me

[Lorelai]

I have to say:

I read all four books, because I was sick of being told 'You can't think it's awful if you haven't read it.'

Well, kids, I have.  And the abercombie, vegetarian vampires still suck ass.

Same thing happened to me. And I agree with your assesment.

Though the idea of teenagers reading anything at all, even if it is crap, does make me a little bit happy. At least now they know what books are. That's a start in the right direction.

[Cattie]

Fuck Aslan.

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[KitDreamer]

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