Canon Characters

[-=Styles=-]

Okay, so I've taken on ONE canon character the entire time I've been on TK before my banishment (the whole three to five months) and apparently, it's looked down upon, which I can understand for some reasons, like lack of creativity and so on. Mind you I do have more than one custom char, and this canon char was only taken on due to story-possible inspirations.

I can understand why it's frowned upon, given certain circumstances, but as well, it was a development for a storyline RP wherein other canon's did exist.

I was told using a canon character (Which was Majin_Buu) with such power was as to be a god-mode, considering the power held by the character portrayed alone. But then, as well, was informed that I had done an excellent job in playing AS the character as opposed to USING the character, a compliment I was very much flattered upon receiving.

One thing that bothers me when people use Canon characters is the fact that most of the time, they're only using the name for the name's sake, and the power alone, rather than actually fitting to the role of the canon. Then they go out and alter the character in total, fitting it to their wants, and using them as a shield (from what I've noticed) to guard what seems to be a lack in RP skills (no offense intended to anyone). I think we can all agree (not a fan of Naruto, just using a generalized example) that when Naruto develops the ability to utilize Planet Disintegrating Laser beams from his eyes...that's a LITTLE godd d*mned far fetched.

I find it much more difficult to RP a canon. This is simply because of the fact that normally you have to mold into a certain character representation, where small and often even ineffective alterations or modifications may be made, if any, and seems to test ones own skills, you know?

This might only be me, but at the same time, it's not something you'd actually see commonly.

I don't really know where I was going with this, but it'd been something I thought about more often than not when I logged onto my canon handle (Majin_Buu (the Kid Buu form by the way, he's my favorite ^.^). I never invaded other RPs and would never force that character of such power in an RP. Although, given that the particular canon I use is pretty much just as evil as you can get, well, it's not much to say that bad things will happen if RP is accepted. Those that did RP with him know full and well what they're getting into, and the ones that didn't like it b*tched continuously OOCly because they didn't quite understand that out of canon sake, some things just WILL NOT stand up to that particular character. Well, sorry to say, but that's the character, not me. I'm just representing the canon to the best of my ability, and playing the role as it should be, not to make you happy.

I fully understand that something with an immense power should stick to a league that fits them best, or otherwise, develop an RP that would suit them, however. But as I said, I would never FORCE RP on anyone using Majin_Buu. If I feel that someone has taken on my particular favored canon, and would not be able to withstand them, I would be polite in suggesting that we discontinue before things turn into (and they usually do) an OOC fight.

Actually, since it's somewhat of a topic that I'm interested in, and I'm not sure if this topic is already abound given the massive number of posts, I would like to now the opinions from y'all on playing canon characters.

Interpretations of canonized RP with customized RP, and anything thing related for that matter would be appreciated.

[Moondog]

Gutts poser. :I

[-=Styles=-]

Eh, not Guts, but w/e. ^.^

If it were Guts, I'd be using him as a canon representation...which funnily enough is applicable to this thread...and what you said is not.

This particular character is Guts' son, so yeah... =)

Do I know you?

[Pink]

Are you really serious about this? :/

[-=Styles=-]

No not really, just bored as all hell due to my banishment on TK....=\

[Moondog]

I... I should note that Guts' child died protecting Caska during the Tower of Salvation arc.

[-=Styles=-]

M'hm, this I know, which is why it's not part of the actual story line. It's a run off of my own creation in which this child was conceived with a 'gypsy' woman, so on and so forth, tragic death of the mother, blah blah blah.

Thanks for the info though ^.^

[Moondog]

I wouldn't be so standoffish. It's just that Berserk is my favorite series and I'm instantly skeptical about anything to do with it. That said...

Nothing's wrong with playing a Canon character, depending on the circumstances. Some characters simply shouldn't be taken from their original setting and put into a varied free-form setting.

Most of the DBZ cast, for example, is in this category. As are the God Hand (Berserk), Alucard (Hellsing), and the like. In their own setting, they're fine, but in general free-form, it's just kinda... eh.

I also find that RPing as an already established character is often boring and too easy - you've already got all the real work done for you. History, appearance, background, powers, and so on.

That said, certain characters coughcoughKlaviercoughcough are too fun to pass up.

[-=Styles=-]

Lol, wasn't meaning to be standoffish. Berserk happens to be my favorite too, actually. Hence the inspiration of the "poseur Guts" Charrie I use often.

I do agree with what you say to a certain extent. Yeah, the work is really already done, and there's not much else you can do with the character itself other than play them as them, but it seems some people like to use them as they see fit.

Dunno why, just sorta bugs me for some reason when people take a canon out of character or out of their element. But yeah, some characters...they really are just to good to pass up...

[Rosery]

I have but one simple problem with people who play canons and it's always canons I've had this problem with not people who play say a Saiyan but a person who plays canons from anything ranging from Bleach to DBZ and I don't want to sound like I have something against DBZ but I see far more DBZ canons and characters than I do most others.

My sole problem is when someone enters my room and proceeds to attack me and seeing as my main used character is unquestionable evil and psychopathic battles are something I can't exactly avoid. Anyway. They enter and attack me and lets say from example they use a DBZ Kamamhea or whatever it is called on me, now my character has a unique kind of energy I've named, "Negative Energy." This is not the energy from DnD nor the Scientifc energy nor any thing else. It is a name I have used to label a type of energy I created thats sole purpose is to devour other types of energy,break them down and convert it to more energy. So it's a good counter for Ki since it devours it...my problem with canons and its almost all canons that do this, not all but I don't run into many customs who cry this.

"That doesn't exist in my characters universe so you can't use it"

What the hell? How can you claim that and then when I point out Ki doesn't exist in mine I'm told "Ki exists in every universe everywhere" it gives me a severe headache. It's not just ki I've been told this about Bleach Magic, Naruto Ninjitsu magic and all sorts and as I hear a friend of mine complain at times they use the age old "Its not magic its "Magi" not to be confused with the "Magi" used by the Amarancy on TK. So ya thats my sole problem with canons, people who cry...

"You can't use it on me cause it doesn't come from my anime" x.x

[Moondog]

And now for something completely different.

[Kill Boy]

[-=Styles=-]

Well Rosery, I can completely agree with that which you have said, having come across certain other individuals (which will remain nameless) who claim that me having used my canon version would not b possible in their role play, not even in a free form setting.

It does have to do with personal acceptance of particular abilities, powers, energy utilization, things of that nature. It really is as simple as saying "It doesn't exist in my RP, therefore, it is not accepted as legitimate".

The ones who cry "Not part of my anime! You Can't Do That!" those are the ones who create the problems with those that can actually RP the canon's well.

Yes, when playing a canon, you really should stick to the genre initially created by the canon and it's followers. Branching out is alright from time to time, as long as there's a common knowledge of the set abilities and structure of the characters. There is no permanent foundation from which anything exists...that's what makes it free-form, this I'm sure you know. if you go in and attack an opponent with your 'ki' and they use negative energy to absorb it...and you do nothing but bitch about it and claim it doesn't exist, but at the same time force the notion that 'ki' exists everywhere, well in all honesty that just makes you look like, and possibly just plain makes you a bad Role Player. (not referring to you by the way if that sounded bad)

If it's not magick it's magi? Sorry to say, I've never actually heard that one before, outside of the Magi used by the Amarancy that is.

I've heard of Magick, Magic, and Magik. Apparently there is a difference between the three. My understanding is that Magick is more or less supernatural, dealing with spells of creation rather than that which already has a foundation.

Magic is the natural, such as manipulation of elements pre-existing, like I guess you could say elemental, ethereal (or corporeal and astral) or basic energies.

Magik, from what I've heard is basically good or evil, I have no idea what that means. Maybe something like Soul or spirit energy vs. Demoniac or Negative energy? Also I've heard tale that Magik deals with the actual fields of probability, giving or taking a manifestation of luck so to say.

Again, my knowledge is limited, I do intend to use this thread as a source of information to help make me a better roleplayer. Those of you that know me know how....I don't know...I am at RPing, so any sort of help is appreciated.

Would you care to elaborate on that, anyone? Like I said, I'm relatively new to TK and this website in general, and the rules are a bit different from that whence I came. Things have progressed a great deal since the time I started RPing oh-so long ago.

[Soja]

Magic/magick/magik/magi.

Neither has an intrinsic difference from the other. Each is a corruption of the word to somehow attempt to distinguish one's brand from another's when they are all really the same thing: elemental and/or spiritual energy-smithing, the ways and means of which are as varied as one's imagination.

'Magick' is merely a more archaic spelling of the word, popularized by Aleister Crowley. 'Magik' seems to be simply a lol-worthy corruption or typo. 'Magi' is simply the Latin root word of 'magic,' typically pertaining to a person who is either a practitioner of magic or simply a wise man.

[Rosery]

Magic/magick/magik/magi.

Neither has an intrinsic difference from the other. Each is a corruption of the word to somehow attempt to distinguish one's brand from another's when they are all really the same thing: elemental and/or spiritual energy-smithing, the ways and means of which are as varied as one's imagination.

'Magick' is merely a more archaic spelling of the word, popularized by Aleister Crowley. 'Magik' seems to be simply a lol-worthy corruption or typo. 'Magi' is simply the Latin root word of 'magic,' typically pertaining to a person who is either a practitioner of magic or simply a wise man.

Try convincing the majority of TK there all the same though. Im told theres nothing I can do to defend myself against one person's Magi with my Sorceress's characters normal defensive spells. And the number of times I've seen someone just disregard one of my friends room rules about teleporting into say the palace and they do it and there argument is, "It's not magic so your barrier can't stop me." I mean lord, please if you can teach TK that all those words mean the same thing I would pay you!

[-=Styles=-]

That to me is just another shallow minded RPer desperate for interaction which in the end they wouldn't be able to handle regardless.

That's just me though.

It's actually funny though, cuz I've heard different variations of Teleporting as well.

Warping, which is supposedly a literal warp in space/time, bringing two places together rather than instantaneous movement from one place to another, the simplest argument for this being that the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line, it's actually no distance at all (as quoted from the movie Event Horizon non-verbatim)

Teleporting is something like being able to move faster than light, and actually involves physical movement by whatever means. But in my understanding, it's not possible to teleport THROUGH solid objects, which is where the unison between warping/teleporting comes from.

Portals are similar to Warping/teleporting, or may even be a childe thereof, only instead of altering the configuration of space/time temporarily, you're actually tearing or opening junctures in space/time, which lead to gateways and the wormhole effect etc, etc.

All of which are highly theoretical but at the same time applicable in free form RP, with no real foundation to back it. But then again, that's what makes it fantasy, and fantasy is fun ^.^.

Again, I don't know, just sort of rambling and hoping to keep some subjective commentary going for anyone interested.

[Ball-o-Cheese]

The practical problem with canon characters is that other people are equally informed and invested in them as you are. If you want to play Harry Potter or Legolas, or Spider-Man, well ok. But there are plenty of other people who really, really love these characters as much (and probably more) than you do. And they probably know more than you do about them, as well.

Why is this important?

When I go into the chat and play as whatever character I dreamed up, by and large I can trundle along and do what I like and people aren't going to care. I can be a huge tool, an enormous goofball, have tons of cyber sex with catgirls, whatever. People might think its lame or whatever, but its my character, so whatever. This isn't true when you're playing a canon character. People care about that character, because they're sort of in a public domain of the imegination, and when they see you doing things they don't think the character would do, they get pissed off. They don't think that Spider-Man would throw a guy into a pit of lava, that Legolas would be chilling out in the Pub, or that Harry Potter would hook up with a vampire.

When you say this:

Dunno why, just sorta bugs me for some reason when people take a canon out of character or out of their element.

You should realize that no matter how good you think you are, whenever you play a canon character, someone is going to think that you're taking them out of character and out of their element (which is true, because you're taking them beyond situations their creators described and outside of the settings they functioned within). Unless you're literally re-enacting DBZ scene by scene, you're taking liberties with a character that isn't yours, and it's going to piss off other fans of the character.

If it makes you uncomfortable to see other people doing this, you should maybe stop doing it yourself. You can't really open this door if you don't want other people stepping through.

[Jason Baane]

To be completely honest I think canon characters are the least of The Keep's 'problems.' Whether a problem even exists or not is a matter of opinion, of course. Most DBZ characters (using that as an example since that's where the topic seems to be hovering) will power-down their characters appropriately depending on their surroundings out of courtesy.

If I was to point out a problem with DBZ characters as a whole I would mention the lack of consistency from one to another. For example:

Character Jason_Baane shoots character Cornon with a Webley Revolver. Cornon plays his character under the assumption that saiyans must dodge incoming projectiles or otherwise form protective magical barriers to intercept the incoming round. In other words; when dealing with Cornon, you are dealing with a saiyan who must see the attack coming to defend against it.

When you switch Cornon with someone more well-known like Son_Goku the dynamic completely and totally changes. Son_Goku RPs under the idea that saiyan skin is bullet proof, and will (has) take bullets of any composition or ballistic coefficient to the center of mass without being phased.

DBZ characters would be a lot easier to interact with if there was an established guideline of what they can and cannot do and why. Instead, though, the series contradicts itself so much that it can't be taken as a serious role-playing platform. In Dragonball, child Goku catches one from a scoped rifle right in the cheek and doesn't even slow down. All through DBZ they are repeatedly slammed through meters and meters of solid rock on a regular basis, surviving blasts that explode mountains and easily penetrate reinforced steel construction or heavy armored fighting vehicle armor. In contrast, the same character has a great fear of needles (which infers that they can penetrate his skin) and it's shown well after he has become Super Saiyan that a well aimed rock messes his ass up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt9bBXo9Dis

Similar problems occur with otherwise non-canon elements however. Vampires in general are the most fractured-ass group of characters I have ever seen. You got some that are a class of undead, and some that are very much living. You got your mortal vamps, and then your immortal vamps. You got the ones who are weak to holy water, garlic, ultraviolet light, silver, and wooden stakes through the face and those who are not. You got your new age anime action hero ones, and then you got your classic masterminds. The same thing can be said of elves, but to a much lesser and more tolerable extent. Dragons suffer from this too. Humans are subject to this as well.

[-=Styles=-]

This is the overall structure of the topic that I wished to explore in general originally. I must say, I do agree with the both of you. Thankfully there are persons out there that can word things much better than I, to at least get the majority of the point across anyway, and place facts and points into content which everyone can understand quite simply, and even removing personal differences from the 'argument' in total to place said facts and/or points.

If it makes you uncomfortable to see other people doing this, you should maybe stop doing it yourself. You can't really open this door if you don't want other people stepping through.

This, believe it or not, was the first thing that crossed my mind when I wished to assume the role of a canon character. I do fully understand, that unless you're doing the play by play rule, that you are essentially removing the character from its original element, whether it be minute differences (even if only to explore a possible story line which is, as well, away from the foundation of the character) or something major, like a complete overhaul of overall characteristics and nature of the character itself.

I would not (ever) go as far to say that I'm good enough to play the role of a canon as it was meant to be, and that simply holds to the criteria of displacing a particular character from it's original frame of creation. It does not matter how good anyone is, no one (personal opinion) will ever be able to actually portray a canon to exact detail, to the smallest fraction of applicable depositions that make the character what they are. Now, that's not going as far as to say that some people can't come damn close, and in fact, there are some that really do pull the strings quite well concerning characters in which they hold a passion for. (Such as Son_Goku for example, who I can honestly say has provided the most accurate likeness in character of that particular canon, as opposed to numerous others' attempts involving my own experiences)

I guess I was mistaken in saying that it bugs me to see people taking characters out of element, and yes, it was a statement that needed correcting.

Instead of generalizing, and adhering now to comments previous, I maybe should have said I don't find favor when individuals pull a character so far from there original element that the character is only discernible to any original format by name's sake only. It's not so much a personal differentiation as much as it is that it could be agreed upon that if you Role Play a canon, a certain amount of responsibility is expected in representing the character as should be, as closely as possible, due to the possibility of perhaps...disrespecting the fans and die hards?

I don't know, I'm not as good with words as some people, but hopefully y'all will get the just of it.

And actually, I would like to take this moment to thank those that are participating in this discussion/argument ordeal. All the information being provided as well as the points of view are enlightening.

[Soja]

Try convincing the majority of TK there all the same though. Im told theres nothing I can do to defend myself against one person's Magi with my Sorceress's characters normal defensive spells.

Typical Amarancy Bullshit.

Yes, it's a proper noun. It's that established.

[Jason Baane]

I missed more of the opening post than I would normally care to admit. Having read over it again there is something I feel like I Need to address.

I have role-played with the OP unknowingly on his Majin_Buu character and, yes, he is fair with the character to a near fault. I can't understand why anyone would have told him that continuing to play that particular character is bad or otherwise beyond his RP 'rights.' I was actually very much looking forward to interacting with him every time he came around for various reasons.

When Majin_Buu hinted at a possible visitation to Silvermoon I was excited because I saw it as a chance to get us out of the deadlock we're currently in. I suck at role-playing villains which I have been trying to do with the absense of many who are willing to play a reasonable antagonist and my mind is too far rooted in the classics to make anything so outlandish that it wouldn't be completely trivialized by the SMK 'power level.' I mean, really, I could unleash a Terrasque on the capitol city and it would get thrashed by some most of our characters. Majin_Buu (or someone like him) played by someone who is fair with the name needs to exist.

I mean, really? Who would pick on Majin_Buu? He does the character really well. Granted it isn’t a particularly hard character to nail (a psycho little POS) but he’s balanced with it and doesn’t have the god complex that some canon players have that seems to exhume an aura of “I’m better than you.” Son_Goku, for example, regularly tells people off in public for their RPing. He doesn’t allow for the randomness of the multiverse in concern to how he reacts to characters from the Dragonball cast (you have to be part of ‘his timeline’ or he won’t acknowledge you) and he explodes entire geographic regions while fighting. For real, the Arena has been demolished like fifty times by this guy.

So by all means, Jester: Keep playing Majin_Buu. You’ve already shown that you’re level headed enough with the character not to go room killing some furry high school or something (even if you would get a resounding ‘thank you’) so I can’t see who told you not to play it or why. If it was someone from the SMK community let me know. If it was I want to know because considering we have inconsistent super saiya-jins, vampires (minus all the weaknesses of course,) chickensauruses (yeah, /whois the_chickensaurus if you don’t believe me,) soldier characters from across a broad spectrum of genres, an NPC military that is FUBAR’d as to what the hell time period we want it to represent, abysmal demons from places worse than hell, and the fricken blob running around I hardly think Majin_Buu is outlandish.

[Rosery]

Morrigan is not from some place worse than hell. In the DnD univerese its kind of a second hell...with multiple levels to it. If that's who you were referring to with that if it was a wide spectrum comment about the random devils/demons we get in the room then forgive me.

As for you Jester I say keep playing your villain the keep needs more of them, the keep needs more competent villains with the capability of thinking up plans and plots that don't amount to all around "I Blow up an entire universe by FARTING." From a resident and very old villain of the keep I say "Don't let those fuckers make you give up a character you like."

[Jason Baane]

I was under the impression that the Abyss was 'below' hell, and got worse and worse/more and more unruly as you went down.

My mistake.

[Rosery]

I was under the impression that the Abyss was 'below' hell, and got worse and worse/more and more unruly as you went down.

My mistake.

Eh. It's more a...different version of it. Devils dwell in "The Hells" Or Baator as it is called in DnD. Demons dwell in the Abyss and if my lore is right the Abyss was actually created by a higher race of beings that pit Demons and Devils in an endless way called the Blood War and constantly watch I think as a form of amusement or as an experiment. However my lore upon the nature of the Blood War and the origins of the Abyss are sketchy at best, I remember where Asmodaeus is from and how Baator came to be but the Abyss is sketchy.

[Xachariah]

Demons and the Nine Hells are more Lawful. There's nine layers, of course.

The Abyss has some huge number of layers. I think something like 666? But it's Chaotic. So, yeah.