Could the Arena use a Moderator (/again)

[-=Styles=-]

Kindness does a lot for you.

That is true.

[Pitch]

Well, I must say I straight up voted 'no'. Probably because whats the point of voting for a guy picked out of a small circle of friends nestled exclusively in one room on the chat. It doesn't make any sense to me.

But democracy or not, I know that talking to Webby or Rook about things civilly and one on one gets things done if you're lucky. Apparently better than making a forum thread about it. So thats our next move. Screw voting.


Still, I wont deny I'm a bit disgusted. Starting to sound like one would have to 'log' time in said room and schmooze/kiss ass just to be considered for something as simple as a single room moderator. So I'm just kind of done with it.  /pissy

It really does seem a bit unfortunate, and I do agree with Lugh on popular rooms having mods. I don't see any reason against that, really.
But you know, don't belittle and try to de-legitimize the concerns of users, especially when it's peacefully brought to you. There's a really big attitude out there that the mods seem smug, untruthful and generally uncaring. I think that by being more willing to listen and be a peacekeeper, you'd be doing a lot to stave off complaints that you don't want to hear.
Kindness does a lot for you.

Well spoken, Pink. I'd have to agree. I didn't think any mod was smug up until I had the audacity to suggest this whole idea. Now I can't wipe the sneer off my face. >.>
Trying not to judge anyone though, yet in between Moondog's failure with the arena and his "friendly" suggestions here I can help but be exactly as described.

Rather than consider our idea we get called "Idiots" and "troublemakers" and "Mesiphidon's harem" for suggesting it. Real awesome.

[Moondog]

Failure with the Arena? Please, enlighten me.

EDIT: Additionally, there really is no malice or sarcasm in my posts - if I'm going to be insulting, I'll be direct about it.

[Dalton]

I want a mod for the Arena.  And one for the Pub. And one for a bunch of other rooms, whatever the rooms are that are big and populated now. Here's why: It'd get somebody in power that's not an ass-kissing layabout from the Lobby. Even if they control only one room, it  means there's more staff members, which means more people in the staff forums contributing to the direction the site runs in  than just the small clique-ish posse we see now. Also having more people share responsibilities would make each mod's burden a bit smaller. Maybe if we pull in enough mods from the various rooms we'll see people actually stay in power for a little while before burning out.

[Pink]

Failure with the Arena? Please, enlighten me.

EDIT: Additionally, there really is no malice or sarcasm in my posts - if I'm going to be insulting, I'll be direct about it.

This doesn't help, Shane. It just makes you sound more smug and smarmy.

[Pink]

It's just... A lot of modwork here sounds like a really uncaring, unwilling to listen bad customer service. I feel like we're all at a Keep Kmart or something...in line, being talked down to by disgruntled, frustrated customer service/sales associates. And at no point is anyone willing to drop their guns and be peaceful and civil. No, instead the idea is that, "If you don't like it, leave. We have no obligation to improve/fix any of the situations you're complaining about. You've all probably made them up anyway, and we have much better things to do with our time---even though we've voluntarily taken this job."

[Moondog]

Failure with the Arena? Please, enlighten me.

EDIT: Additionally, there really is no malice or sarcasm in my posts - if I'm going to be insulting, I'll be direct about it.

This doesn't help, Shane. It just makes you sound more smug and smarmy.

Should I throw in more 'jk lols' or what? Look, I'm not here to stroke your ego in case you may or may not take offense - or interpret what I write as smug or smarmy. If you want to do that, that's your deal.

But

I really don't go out of my way to seem smug or smarmy. I'm just me. :v
Could I change my word choices? Sure. Will I? Probably not, it's a pain in the butt.

[Pink]

Failure with the Arena? Please, enlighten me.

EDIT: Additionally, there really is no malice or sarcasm in my posts - if I'm going to be insulting, I'll be direct about it.

This doesn't help, Shane. It just makes you sound more smug and smarmy.

Should I throw in more 'jk lols' or what? Look, I'm not here to stroke your ego in case you may or may not take offense - or interpret what I write as smug or smarmy. If you want to do that, that's your deal.

But

I really don't go out of my way to seem smug or smarmy. I'm just me. :v
Could I change my word choices? Sure. Will I? Probably not, it's a pain in the butt.

Noone's trying to stroke any egos here. We're trying to get an issues solved. Have we put forth that idea? I think that that's really silly, no matter who may be at fault. This is about the situation, not personal stakes in it. I think that you're being really counterproductive when it comes to rectifying the issue.

[-=Styles=-]

Hey, guys, come on. Let's not make this like the 500 other forum threads and keep on the original topic without going at each other's throats.

Should the Arena have a moderator? Yes, no, maybe? We've already driven the point home that the staff is chosen based around the OOC Lobby. But why? Primarily because that's where the staff hangs out, and it's there that they see how certain users handle themselves around other users. Without any other frames of reference, new staff members are chosen from there. I don't want to say that who becomes a mod or not is based strictly on who is butt-buddies with the sysops, but it IS based on what they get to see and who they would deem responsible enough.

Is it fair? No, because there's an entire other chat, and the OOC Lobby only makes up a small percentage of the entire population of the Keep. We do have a fairly big userbase. It would be nice to see more moderation rather than just that centered in the Lobby, and we are, little by little. I don't think an Arena moderator would be a bad thing. If we had a Pub moderator--which has a significantly less number of frequent users and still did at the time we had one--, then I don't see why we shouldn't have a moderator for rooms with more traffic, like the Arena or the Forest.

The room biases are bullshit and you all know it. But that's not the question here. So can we address the real question like big boys and girls?

[TheMadHatter]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

[-=Styles=-]

No matter the outcome, I would actually like to thank everyone who's taking this at least partially serious, ahead of time.

[Xachariah]

I'm actually not trying to discourage people from saying anything. = V I just notice that people get less worked-up if something goes wrong if they've been reminded it's possible.

If I WERE trying to discourage people from saying anything, I honestly hate being subtle. I'd be like "You know you're not going to accomplish anything, right? Why bother?" rather than "Hey, just so you know, they're not... y'know, obligated to do what your votes say, so... try not to get too mad if it doesn't work out."

[Kade]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Amen

I came from a place where people used /squelch [identical to /ignore] to handle issues.
And when that wasn't enough, RPs were relocated to operated channels so that any annoying individuals that followed could be banned.
There were no mods beyond one's own operated channel either, and that worked just fine for... easily 11+ years. (I was only around for 4 of them).

The entire need for a mod seems... Well, I don't want to be mean because I like most of the people I've met on TK, but it seems sort of like you're whiny and spoiled. It's like you all think you're too good for an old fashioned /ignore and/or relocation of RP.

But I'm just a newfag an outsider, so don't mind me.

[Moondog]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Exactly. + pie for you.

[Pink]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Amen

I came from a place where people used /squelch [identical to /ignore] to handle issues.
And when that wasn't enough, RPs were relocated to operated channels so that any annoying individuals that followed could be banned.
There were no mods beyond one's own operated channel either, and that worked just fine for... easily 11+ years. (I was only around for 4 of them).

The entire need for a mod seems... Well, I don't want to be mean because I like most of the people I've met on TK, but it seems sort of like you're whiny and spoiled. It's like you all think you're too good for an old fashioned /ignore and/or relocation of RP.

But I'm just a newfag an outsider, so don't mind me.

I dunno, I guess it may seem that way as an outsider, but obviously it isn't working. I'm a pretty old-school RPer (AOL, '97 LOLOLOL) and I know that sometimes there's nothing you can do about all of the OOC unless you want to ignore everyone and play with yourself.
I feel that players have probably tried other routes, and are now coming here to try and find another solution.

It doesn't make them whiny and spoiled---being whiny and spoiled would be harassing existing mods to come in and fix it without being willing to do anything for themselves.





...And see, Shane. THis is the attitude I'm talking about.

[LiteracyScaresMe]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Exactly. + pie for you.

Then why have moderators in non-OOC rooms to begin with if people can just /ignore or make their own rooms if they have problems? We've had room moderators before in the past. Saying 'Do it yourself' seems to me like a lazy response that lets people get away with being dicks because no one wants to babysit them. What, are we going to just moderate the OOC rooms now?

[Pink]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Exactly. + pie for you.

Definitely yay. I don't know how strict we are about too much OOC in rp rooms, but that's about the only thing that bothers me. Because there's a vague line to what's a lot and what isn't.

Usually about a screenful or three-quarters of a screen seems to be the line. It sort of depends on how many people there are and the groups themselves, though.

This estimate is back from when I was actually in rooms regularly, which was a few months ago at least.

I start to get irritated myself (and ask people to stifle) withthe OOC once it pushes my (and the people I'm RPing with) posts off the screen. This is generally a rare occurrence, as I tend to RP mostly in the Forest and or Desert, which never gets quite the same volume of OOC as the Pub or Arena does.

As Bane said, the amount usually varies depending on who all is there, and the amount of people in a room - if there are 3 people in a room, two of which are RPing, and one or two make an OOC comment or so, nobody cares because that's what, two lines? If it's a room of 12, and even half of the people say something, you end up with a big portion of your screen devoted to OOC.

also I keep typing OOC as OCC (yeah you know me)

[Kade]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Amen

I came from a place where people used /squelch [identical to /ignore] to handle issues.
And when that wasn't enough, RPs were relocated to operated channels so that any annoying individuals that followed could be banned.
There were no mods beyond one's own operated channel either, and that worked just fine for... easily 11+ years. (I was only around for 4 of them).

The entire need for a mod seems... Well, I don't want to be mean because I like most of the people I've met on TK, but it seems sort of like you're whiny and spoiled. It's like you all think you're too good for an old fashioned /ignore and/or relocation of RP.

But I'm just a newfag an outsider, so don't mind me.

I dunno, I guess it may seem that way as an outsider, but obviously it isn't working.

I don't see how it's not working. /ignore works just fine. You're all just lazy, imho.

[Pink]

I voted no, because I don't think the Arena needs a mod. If anyone has an issue in that room, they can easily make their own room and move the roleplay. Then they will be the mod and kick out anyone they please.

Amen

I came from a place where people used /squelch [identical to /ignore] to handle issues.
And when that wasn't enough, RPs were relocated to operated channels so that any annoying individuals that followed could be banned.
There were no mods beyond one's own operated channel either, and that worked just fine for... easily 11+ years. (I was only around for 4 of them).

The entire need for a mod seems... Well, I don't want to be mean because I like most of the people I've met on TK, but it seems sort of like you're whiny and spoiled. It's like you all think you're too good for an old fashioned /ignore and/or relocation of RP.

But I'm just a newfag an outsider, so don't mind me.

I dunno, I guess it may seem that way as an outsider, but obviously it isn't working.

I don't see how it's not working. /ignore works just fine. You're all just lazy, imho.

That's funny, because I'm sure this is more an an exertion of effort than simply using /ignore. If /ignore were such a simple solution, I really think that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. I really wish it were a question of laziness versus action, but it isn't. However, the userbase could always do more to fix some of the problems, but I think that opening this thread is one way of doing it.

[Kade]

I dunno, I guess it may seem that way as an outsider, but obviously it isn't working.

I don't see how it's not working, so no... it's not that obvious. All of the problems are completely preventable via use of /ignore and/or relocation of RP. There were zero mods [outside of private channels] where I came from, and it worked just fine for 11+ years. If you could convince me that it's necessary to have a new mod, then I'd be on board, but to me it just looks like a lot of whiny people that think they're too good to use /ignore.

It doesn't make them whiny and spoiled---being whiny and spoiled would be harassing existing mods to come in and fix it without being willing to do anything for themselves.

To me, it's lazy/spoiled that you would whine for the attention of a mod.
To you, I guess it's ... uh, responsible of you to try to appoint a new mod.
It's a matter of perception. I don't think you were trying to be offensive, but redefining whiny and spoiled like my opinion is just plain wrong is a bit uh... yeah.

-- Maybe I'm just that  guy from the hood who keeps rolling his eyes and talking about how poor he was as a kid.
"Yo, we was so po' we didn't even have mods! Ya'll be trippin'."




PS: This was supposed to be an edit of my last post, but it got all huge. x_x

[Pink]

I dunno, I guess it may seem that way as an outsider, but obviously it isn't working.

I don't see how it's not working, so no... it's not that obvious. All of the problems are completely preventable via use of /ignore and/or relocation of RP. There were zero mods [outside of private channels] where I came from, and it worked just fine for 11+ years. If you could convince me that it's necessary to have a new mod, then I'd be on board, but to me it just looks like a lot of whiny people that think they're too good to use /ignore.

It doesn't make them whiny and spoiled---being whiny and spoiled would be harassing existing mods to come in and fix it without being willing to do anything for themselves.

To me, it's lazy/spoiled that you would whine for the attention of a mod.
To you, I guess it's ... uh, responsible of you to try to appoint a new mod.
It's a matter of perception. I don't think you were trying to be offensive, but redefining whiny and spoiled like my opinion is just plain wrong is a bit uh... yeah.


PS: This was supposed to be an edit of my last post, but it got all huge. x_x

-- Maybe I'm just that  guy from the hood who keeps rolling his eyes and talking about how poor he was as a kid.
"Yo, we was so po' we didn't even have mods! Ya'll be trippin'."

Well, perhaps. Honestly, your input in the thread came off as quite offensive and pretentious itself. I was trying to epxlain the situation to you, because if people aren't here to try and come up with solutions, then they would be better off not posting here. There's no need for criticism that puts the problem backwards when this is already one solution that's come up. It's about discussing the solution specifically, so calling people whiny doesn't actually help.
:/
Sorry if I jumped the gun, but your intentions didn't strike me as very kind at the time. And, you have to realize that this is not the same community. While outside opinions can be a really really really good thing, you can't always compare apples to oranges. And I really did see your opinion as wrong. I don't think that the bulk of the users commenting here (Having known them personally) are whiny or spoiled. They're decent people and are trying to solve this problem constructively. Please realize that what you said could easily be taken as belittling them.

[Kade]

I was trying to epxlain the situation to you, because if people aren't here to try and come up with solutions, then they would be better off not posting here.

Unless I can't read, this is about a poll, and unless I REALLY can't read, a bunch of people have voted no [including me]. Nay-saying in here is entirely relevant. It's still completely up for debate if there is even a problem that needs any fixing at all, so I don't see how people who aren't trying to find a solution to your perceived crisis shouldn't be posting here.

And, you have to realize that this is not the same community. While outside opinions can be a really really really good thing, you can't always compare apples to oranges. And I really did see your opinion as wrong. I don't think that the bulk of the users commenting here (Having known them personally) are whiny or spoiled.

I don't think you even realize how much it's not apples to oranges. If anything it's just red apples to green apples. A different flavor of the same fruit. And I agree, I like the bulk of users on tK a lot. I just think this crusade is being launched for silly reasons.

/ignore works on most OOC.
For everything else, there's relocation.

[Pink]

I was trying to epxlain the situation to you, because if people aren't here to try and come up with solutions, then they would be better off not posting here.

Unless I can't read, this is about a poll, and unless I REALLY can't read, a bunch of people have voted no [including me]. Nay-saying in here is entirely relevant. It's still completely up for debate if there is even a problem that needs any fixing at all, so I don't see how people who aren't trying to find a solution to your perceived crisis shouldn't be posting here.

And, you have to realize that this is not the same community. While outside opinions can be a really really really good thing, you can't always compare apples to oranges. And I really did see your opinion as wrong. I don't think that the bulk of the users commenting here (Having known them personally) are whiny or spoiled.

I don't think you even realize how much it's not apples to oranges. If anything it's just red apples to green apples. A different flavor of the same fruit. And I agree, I like the bulk of users on tK a lot. I just think this crusade is being launched for silly reasons.

/ignore works on most OOC.
For everything else, there's relocation.

Oh okay, so you just want to put the whole thing down? Again, I wouldn't call it a crusade. I just can't understand why people want to put down a chance to do some good---especially by the users who use the community in question. And if everyone's going to constantly be relocating, that fragments the chat and furthers the idea that RPing is hard to find and even more difficult to keep up with when it comes to non user-made rooms. When does it end? Why can't there be moderation for the rooms that The Keep has created specifically for RP? Why just OOC rooms when, the chat is designed for RP and not OOC?

And this is a problem that I'm guessing has been brewing for years; not the sudden whim of a few users.

[Pink]

I dunno, I guess it may seem that way as an outsider, but obviously it isn't working.

I don't see how it's not working, so no... it's not that obvious. All of the problems are completely preventable via use of /ignore and/or relocation of RP. There were zero mods [outside of private channels] where I came from, and it worked just fine for 11+ years. If you could convince me that it's necessary to have a new mod, then I'd be on board, but to me it just looks like a lot of whiny people that think they're too good to use /ignore.

It doesn't make them whiny and spoiled---being whiny and spoiled would be harassing existing mods to come in and fix it without being willing to do anything for themselves.

To me, it's lazy/spoiled that you would whine for the attention of a mod.
To you, I guess it's ... uh, responsible of you to try to appoint a new mod.
It's a matter of perception. I don't think you were trying to be offensive, but redefining whiny and spoiled like my opinion is just plain wrong is a bit uh... yeah.

-- Maybe I'm just that  guy from the hood who keeps rolling his eyes and talking about how poor he was as a kid.
"Yo, we was so po' we didn't even have mods! Ya'll be trippin'."




PS: This was supposed to be an edit of my last post, but it got all huge. x_x

By the way, I'm not trying to convince you of joining a 'side'. I think the problem will probably be dealt with beneficially regardless. And there's really no need for camps or sides or anything, really. We're all users here.

[Kade]

Oh okay, so you just want to put the whole thing down?

Pretty much.

Again, I wouldn't call it a crusade. I just can't understand why people want to put down a chance to do some good---especially by the users who use the community in question.

Whether or not a new mod is a good thing is debatable. You seem to have made your mind up on that issue, but some people haven't, and as one of those people it seems very crusade-like for you to be using that kind of definitive rhetoric.

I don't think the Arena is a bad place. There's RP in there pretty often, most people shut up for RP, and OOC derailments can be averted by using /ignore. I know I've ignored a few people and just kept RPing before. /ignore is there for a reason. Nowhere in the AUP (I think that's what it's called) does it say you're entitled to a perfect enviroment where you're never going to use /ignore. You guys have it pretty nice on TK, and the OOC in the Arena seems like a silly thing to be complaining about, imho.

"Ya'll be trippin'!"