Issuing my complaint for the day...

[stupidicus]

To those this may concern:

My name is Sarah. I have been role playing on TK for several years now. I’ve made a number of anonymous donations to help this website stay up and running. I have modded over countless RP’s and I’d like to think it’s a good thing that I’ve usually always been able to handle my own issues fairly without having to get the global mods involved with my internet drama. 

One of my first group RP’s was Lucifer’s Seven, which I co-modded under Eka for a couple of years. Up until recently, I played the part of Violence. I thought everything was going fine between myself and Eka, even on the morning when I logged in and recreated the profile to join the room for the first time after the long time it’s taken for L7 to show it’s face on TK again. But to my surprise, everything had been completely changed around to the point to where I no longer felt that Violence was the character to play in an RP like that. I happened to be involved in the sick conversation that was going on OOCly in the room, (which oh by the way EVERYONE ELSE was involved in as well, even though VULGAR LANGUAGE  was apparently the reasoning behind my being banned? Why was no one else punished for this except for me?) when suddenly Eka whispered me and mentioned that some of the things I said were going over the line. I was quick to shut up and switch to whispered conversation which in my opinion seemed fairly civil. I expressed to her my feelings about where the RP was going, and then explained to her that I wanted to take Violence into freelance mode. She seemed fine with my decision, so I apologized for leaving and bowed out of the room entirely. I logged out of my Violence handle and in to my Stupidicus handle and went idle in the west tower for a few hours before I logged off entirely. Several hours later into the day I attempted to log back in only to discover (COMPLETELY to my surprise, I might add!) that I had been banned from the site entirely. Figuring I knew exactly what was up, I logged in to MSN and started talking to another friend of mine, who more or less confirmed my suspicions of what had happened by telling me that Eka had been gloating about manipulating a mod by the name of Drew (not sure if that’s a name or an actual handle) into perma-banning me.

To me personally, this seems like a very gross abuse of mod powers, and a very immature display of cyber bullying on both their parts. I am posting this on the OOC forums now because I have sent emails two times and both times I have been ignored.  I had a friend log in and talk to a mod by the handle name of Moondog earlier, who apparently saw things from my own point of view and wanted to lessen the punishment, but also said there wasn’t much that could be done about it and that he couldn’t guarantee anything was going to happen at all. I also find this to be incredibly depressing and neglectful  in a way that there are actually mods on this site who are allowed to abuse their powers in one way or another and they are allowed to simply walk away unpunished.

I only want everyone to know how displeased I am with this situation and that I am going to mention it in warning to everyone else I know, who might later become victim of the same abuse because I am fairly certain that someone else will be rubbing one or both of the parties involved the wrong way, and there will be another poor silly sap banned without warning for no reason whatsoever.

Thank you for your time.

Stupidicus

[Kade]

Sounds terrible. I feel for you.

I agree, it's hideous how mods can screw up around TK and not even receive a slap on the wrist for it. It's like an old boys club.

[Inquisitor]

Sounds terrible. I feel for you.

I agree, it's hideous how mods can screw up around TK and not even receive a slap on the wrist for it. It's like an old boys club.

golfclap

you figured it out

[-=Styles=-]

Worst part is, this isn't the first and certainly won't be the  final time something like this is going to happen.

Sorry for your losses.

[stupidicus]

Thats all well and good. But I still fully intend to -IN THE VERY LEAST- let everybody know how things roll with the individual in question. I am honestly quite disgusted with how this came about, and at a complete loss for words for how highschool drama the whole situation seems to be related to.

Honestly what gives one the right to actually get pissed off because someone else chooses to part ways with them? On top of that, who stoops -that- low? She reminds me of Kimlainee at this point.

I also don't understand why it worked out like this, when a few years back I was being STALKED and SEXUALLY HARRASSED by DonJuan and had to show prove of SEVERAL screen shots to the global mods before anyone ever even bothered trying to hear me out.

Why now, is -this- allowed to happen?

[Kade]

*Waits expectantly for a mod to comment.*

[Drew]

You were banned for doing explicitly sexual actions in a public room. This should be a permabannable offence, which, it did not end up being. You are not banned permanantly, but instead for thirty days.

I was sent logs of the incident and -not- manipulated into anything. Yes, Eka is my friend, but I would not just ban on someone else's say so unless it was another mod. So, nope, no biased from me. I posted the offence on the moderators forum, and was agreed upon thirty days. However, if one of the admin or something want to take another look into this, feel free.

[Moondog]

One thing I want to clarify.

I said that I would bring up the possibility of shortening the ban. I also said 'I can't make any promises, however'.

[Eka]

For those who have read this and think badly of Drew:

I myself could not care less of the bashing I may receive from disgruntled internet users, even those who used to be my friends ( such as Sarah ) but, on behalf of someone who doesn’t deserve any sort of ill feeling in this episode of silliness I’m being forced to reply.

I have skimmed over the accusations made against Drew and myself and find them to be twisted – if I am accused of attempting to manipulate a mod, I would like to return those accusations, and add some others. Firstly, if by ‘manipulation a mod’ translates to truth as: “She showed a moderator she knows logs that contained legitimate reasons to ban someone” then, sure, I did that. I could have shown any other mod the same logs and if they were following tK rules, they’d have hit /ban too, but I don't know any other tK mods. So I showed the one I did. Second: If my ‘offences’ are manipulation, heck only knows what Sarah’s doing right now to everyone here. Lastly: If by gloating she means telling someone? Yeah, guilty. I told a friend who had also seen the logs, who wouldn’t?

Basically,  Sarah is lying. There was a conversation in whispers, but in no way was it ‘fairly civil’, at least not on Sarah’s part.

I would type a whole half bothered description of this conversation but, I am lazy and this is easier:

09:45:50 Violence its fucking 10:30 AM
09:46:02 [Harold] it's 1:40 pm
09:46:02 [Lies] 18:30pm here.
09:46:06 Lies eyes Eka.
09:46:13 [Harold] I woke up at 6:30 or 7 pm last night
09:46:20 Lies fixes glasses. 6:40pm.
09:46:41 [Sadistic] Why am I being eyes, Seil?
09:46:47 [Violence] bunch'a sandy vaginas
09:46:49 [Sadistic] eyed.
09:46:50 [Sadistic] Too.
09:47:07 Waldo exits from this room
09:47:32 [Lies] B'cuz.
09:47:35 Harold curls against Ben sleepily and yawns. Pillow~
09:47:36 [Lies] I can eye you.
09:48:18 [Sadistic] I ownz you.
09:48:19 Violence Randomly crams his dick into Sadi's asshole
09:48:25 Sadistic backhands.
09:48:26 Violence Makes his ass bleed
09:48:33 Lies lo's at the sight.
09:48:36 Sadistic avoids this.
09:48:39 Violence Groans loudly "Yeah hit me when you squeeze!"
09:48:44 [Sadistic] Go fuck someone who wants you.
09:48:52 [Violence] I dont want those who want me
09:48:54 Sadistic backhanded Seil.
09:49:01 [Sadistic] In that case.
09:49:04 Lies defends with a jamjar!
09:49:05 [Sadistic] Go fuck jesus.
09:49:08 Violence Continues to pump his meaty dick into Sadi's ass
09:49:15 Violence Makes him bled
09:49:18 [Violence] bleed
09:49:25 [Violence] OMG jam jar
09:49:37 [Violence] I saw this video of this guy sticking a pickel jar in his ass...
09:49:42 Harold itches an ear. Ugh, kids.
09:49:50 [Violence] The lid falls off at the last second...
09:49:53 [Lies] 1Jar1Guy.
09:49:58 [Violence] POP you hear from inside his ass
09:49:59 [Lies] >>;
09:50:00 [Harold] 1man1jar? ,':|a
09:50:01 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Srsly, that will get you banned from tK. x_x
09:50:18 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] uuuuh I've talked about worse things ooc dude
09:50:27 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] dont be so paranoid...
09:50:42 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Yes, but not in a room with me - I have a really good mod friend, who ghost in rooms I'm in sometimes, also a tK mod is a member.
09:51:01 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] you're serious?
09:51:08 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] Thats pretty gay....
09:51:15 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Utterly serious. x_x
09:51:34 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] -Shrugs. ~ Is tK rule stuff, cause of minors and such.
09:51:49 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] ugh suddenly I dont wanna be Violence anymore. You've dragged enough slobbering vaginas in here that I cant be this character....
09:52:22 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Because you can't hump people in a public room you don't wanna play Vi?
09:52:39 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Fair enough, if you don' want Vi, you can give him up?
09:52:59 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] hang on, phone.
09:54:44 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Kk.
09:55:56 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] anyhow yeah you had a potentially awesome RP going there for awhile. Then you started including kids into the plot and now you've got mods? You're turning this into a nickelodeon after school special...
09:56:25 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] you might as well just start renaming your characters Felicity and The Pink Ranger...
09:56:58 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] I mean okay I'm not trying to be insulting or anything
09:58:01 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Whatever, the RP runs the same, same characters, same players, same everything. Sorry you feel the way you do. If you don't want to stay in the RP as Vi, feel free to leave.
09:58:41 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] But you have completely destroyed your own plot by allowing the muppet babies and soccer moms in, and now that I know how far I cant go in ooc conversation then I dont see a point in ever attempting to go IC again because all Violence is capable of doing is offending. Its almost like you've warped the plot specifically to exclude characters like Rape and Violence...
10:00:20 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Okay.
10:02:22 [Violence whispers to Sadistic] So yeah... I'll give up the part of Violence in L7... I'm going to take this character into Freelance. He is mine after all, I will just delete all association with L7. I'm sorry I can't keep up with the sugar coated PC-ness you've incorporated into this, but yeah... I guess I'll see you around.
10:02:57 [Sadistic whispers to Violence] Do whatever you want, was nice havin' ya, cya around.


Make up your own minds on the issue, I know I’ll come out of it badly to you internet fiends who I don’t know or ever plan on knowing, but here's a word or two for you anyway: Yes, I perhaps shouldn’t have been so upset by the fact that someone who was supposed to be a friend - however distantly - took the time to openly insult people I am honestly close to for no reason other than they were asked not to be explicit in public, but hey, thems the breaks.

I won’t defend my act of showing a global moderator these logs, I shouldn’t have done it, it’s pretty low, but Drew? He was just doing his job by banning someone who broke tK rules, and then admitted to doing it frequently on other occasions.

As closing statements to this tedious ordeal: C’est la vie, enjoy your discussion and Happy New Year. =D

Best wishes,

The one you'll love to hate;

                        - Eka.

[Silent.Kamikaze]

I always knew that rp was a cesspool of violent cyber...

[Kade]

I've seen much, much worse on TK. Still disagree with the ban, even if Stupidicus is a bit of an asshat.

[TheMadHatter]

Oh...uh, I see this is posted in a few places. Now that I see the logs I guess I can properly respond.

First of all, I have seen worse, I have said worse, and like hell anyone in the ooc rooms haven't said extremely vulgar things. It seems to me like they got into an ooc argument about a roleplay, they couldn't handle it like adults, and the one went running to her mod friend to get the other player in trouble.

It's sad that it was handled so poorly. It is pathetic that someone has to run to a moderator because they have a grudge. You should of just let her leave and ended it that way. I have entered L7 room before, and I've seen the players talking to one another like the example in the logs.

Maybe she should of been banned from the usermade room, not the keep for 30 days.

[Inquisitor]

To be honest that's pretty dumb and weird so everyone trying to play it off and being like 'oh, i've done worse' are weirder

[Auvic]

Because I'm all for people getting punished when they break the rules, I'll insert my opinion here.

1. So there was some rule-breaking going on in the chat. Eka tells Stupidicus that she should stfu.
1a. Because there is a mod that is directly involved in the RP
1b. Because Eka has a friend that's a mod that likes to ghost in her room.

Conclusion: If anything, Eka was doing the polite thing by informing the other user that by rule-breaking in this specific room that she would have a much higher probability of getting banned for doing something that would be alright somewhere else.
Do people talk about sex indirectly, in public rooms? Yes. Do people occasionally talk about "pump[ing] his meaty dick into [insertpersonhere]'s ass"? Also, yes. Do people generally do that when mods are around? No.
For the sake of making it understandable to anyone who has ever been in a car:
Do people go over the speed limit? Yes, they do. Do people continue to speed on Road X when someone tells them, "Yo, some cops like hanging around Road X"? No, they generally don't.

Alright. Now that that's figured out, onto the next point.

2. In the chat after Eka informed Stupidicus about the situation with the mods, Stupidicus proceeded to insult - rather mildly, I'll opine - the RP and Eka's handling of the RP.
2a. Does Stupidicus have a right to her opinion? Sure.
2b. Does Stupidicus have a right to tell someone their RP's quality is going down the drain because she can't emote having sex publicly? Again sure. It's sort of a stupid thing to do when someone's telling you information for your own personal benefit, though.

Conclusion: Stupidicus, you're an ass. Someone tells you cops are hanging around that one Dunkin Donuts down on I-51, and what do you do? You tell that nice waitress, "Well, fuck you too", and threaten to beat her up.

3. After this chat, Eka presumably went to Drew and showed him the logs. Drew bans Stupidicus on grounds of: "4. Cyber sex or 'cybering' is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN in all public rooms,". Which, obviously, Stupidicus' chatting was.
3a. Is it within Eka's right to show a mod the logs of people breaking rules? Sure.
3b. Can Eka show a log to mods of people breaking rules for a grand total of about fifteen minutes? Counting, of course, the time spent when Stupidicus went to go pick up the phone, and all the other chatting went on? Again, sure.

Conclusion: Eka, that was a real dick move on your part, too. You already told the chick she should stop, and her response was, "Alright, fine. Fuck you, I'm leaving your RP then." You could have left it at that, because technically you gave her a warning, and things did not continue after the warning you gave her, as far as these logs show.


Overall conclusion / tl;dr:
Stupidicus and Eka are both guilty of going above and beyond the call of Retardedness.
Opinion: I forgot what I was writing about halfway through this, obviously. Derp a derp derp.

[Pink]

I can't see how that's in any way worth such a ban.

I mean, the conversations I've had with mods have been pretty terrible. But then again, I'd be OK with this if the punishment was purely for depicting anal rape in a nonfunny manner. But that would be biased.

[Xachariah]

You were banned for doing explicitly sexual actions in a public room. This should be a permabannable offence, which, it did not end up being. You are not banned permanantly, but instead for thirty days.

3. After this chat, Eka presumably went to Drew and showed him the logs. Drew bans Stupidicus on grounds of: "Harsh swearing is acceptable out of character, when it is censored". Which, obviously, Stupidicus' chatting was not.

Pretty sure the reason for banning wasn't the swearing.

You know. As the mod explicitly stated that the reason for banning was the sexual action.

So, you know. Don't start arguing things based on something seemingly contradictory to what the stated reason is. It might just be me, but that just looks... off. Isn't it counterproductive to clamor for explanation and then completely disregard it?

[Moondog]

Let's summarize.

• Violence, one of Stupidicus' characters broke Article 1, Clause 2 of the AUP and the sexual violence/content can be argued to violate either A1C2 or good 'ol #4. It is clause 4 that matters in this regard.
  
  
• The ban was placed by Drew, after being shown a log of the offense by someone who is admittedly his best friend.
  
  
• The ban's duration is 30 days, which as per our policy on sexual content in public rooms is in fact somewhat lenient, as it usually carries a permanent duration instead.
  
  
• If I'm reading this right, Stupidicus' defense is essentially 'other people do it without being caught, so it's not fair that I get punished just because someone passed a log of me breaking rules along to a moderator.'
  
  

Now, I have had, and still have nothing to do with this whole debacle, as I didn't place the initial ban and so on, so my perspective on this is as an outsider. Upfront, I'm going to admit that I think both parties involved (Eka and Stupidicus) handled this poorly.

Yes, Stupidicus broke the rules. Yes, Eka passed a log of said transgressions to the people who have to act on it.  

Neither of those were really necessary. There is no 'if you see it, you must pass logs of rule breaking' clause in the AUP (thank God), and there certainly was no call for '09:48:19 Violence Randomly crams his dick into Sadi's asshole'.

As far as I'm concerned, the ban was, and still is valid. You broke the rules. You got caught doing it. You do the time. It sucks that other people do it and don't get caught, as moderators can only deal with what they see/are forwarded, but them's the breaks.

With that said, I've asked the other moderator staff to look in on this situation. When they get the chance, as per their schedules, they'll weigh in.  None were involved in this entire thing, and this ought to be sufficient to deal with any quibbles about bias in the decision. If sufficient bias is found, then I suppose we'll remove the ban and immolate Drew on a pyre of furries.

[Kill Boy]

I saw it going down this way. I'm not surprised. So as is tradition.

[Auvic]

Pretty sure the reason for banning wasn't the swearing.

You know. As the mod explicitly stated that the reason for banning was the sexual action.

So, you know. Don't start arguing things based on something seemingly contradictory to what the stated reason is. It might just be me, but that just looks... off. Isn't it counterproductive to clamor for explanation and then completely disregard it?

....At some point in time, I entirely forgot 'crams his dick into ___'s asshole' actually counted as public cybering, just chalked it up to the obvious profanity. Boo hiss at myself, in that case. I'll go back and reword.

[stupidicus]

"First of all, I have seen worse, I have said worse, and like hell anyone in the ooc rooms haven't said extremely vulgar things. It seems to me like they got into an ooc argument about a roleplay, they couldn't handle it like adults, and the one went running to her mod friend to get the other player in trouble.

It's sad that it was handled so poorly. It is pathetic that someone has to run to a moderator because they have a grudge. You should of just let her leave and ended it that way. I have entered L7 room before, and I've seen the players talking to one another like the example in the logs.

Maybe she should of been banned from the usermade room, not the keep for 30 days. "

As stated quite clearly from the hatter, THIS is my argument. Eka, you "know" your reasoning was full of holes. And now that the logs have been posted, you're only going to end up making yourself look more like an ass. I hope -everyone- sees that conversation because quite frankly everyone that knows me also knows it is mild for me.
They also know that anything you could have portrayed as 'insulting' is only 'truth'. I'm sorry if the truth hurts dear. And Drew, I still stand by what I said every step of the way.

[Inquisitor]

If you normally act worse then that on a regular basis, I'm surprised you haven't been banned sooner. Really, is there a reason to that crass? It just seems unfunny, childish, and pretty much plain stupid.

[SixStringSamurai]

Graphically depicted fake rape in spite of requests by the person being targeted that you stop.

We ban people for that every time.

Previous to reading the log, I was almost in agreement. We're fairly lax on the sexual humor thing provided, this particular outburst just crossed the line and showed a lack of common sense.

[Silent.Kamikaze]

I think her behaviour is stupid and gross, but common around tk. I mean seriously.. Have you guys seen the arena? The pub? Basically everyone breaks the rules, but youll only get banned for it if people dont like you.

[Inquisitor]

I think her behaviour is stupid and gross, but common around tk. I mean seriously.. Have you guys seen the arena? The pub? Basically everyone breaks the rules, but youll only get banned for it if people dont like you.

"But everyone else is doing it!" should not be a feasible defense. And the Pub's been a crappy place for a long time because the dumb clique that runs the place.

[Kade]

Auvic Summarized: Blahblah terrible metaphor blahblah she got caught.
We know.

Moondog Summarized: She broke the AUP here, here, and here. Still poorly handled.
Helpful.

Hatter Summarized: Lol, this happened again? Half the population of TK deserves to be banned.
XD

I've seen disembowelment,
I've seen murder,
I've a whole lot of cleavage-play,
I've seen "slow" anal rape,
I've seen anal rape,
I've seen vaginal rape,
I've seen oral rape,
I've seen vaginal discharge play,
I've seen menstrual discharge play,
I've seen scat,
I've seen tentacle-play,
I've seen bukakke,
I've seen very obvious racism,
etc.

I don't have a problem with any of this, but I've seen all the aforementioned go on in TK's OOC, written with detail comparable to the log that got Stupidicus banned for a month, and written with such prevalence/frequency in TK's OOC that it would be *impossible* for a mod not to see it once in a while. I have never, ever seen a mod issue a warning for this kind of behavior. Not even through an informal little "tone it down" of some sort.

I understand the "but she got caught" argument, and I'm not arguing that just because everyone does it it's okay for her to do it too. I'm saying that either the AUP is flawed, or the people who interpret the AUP (mods) direly need to re-evaluate things.

To refer back to this terrible metaphor that keeps coming up, "speed limits" have in fact changed many times in the past. I think we all agree a "speed limit" was exceeded here, but some of us think the "speed limit" itself is in need of updating.

[opinion]I don't feel this behavior warrants a ban any longer than a single day, and I still think a single day ban is ridiculously excessive in light of how mild Stupidicus' offense was.[/opinion] If a mod could answer, why was it a month? Was a warning issued? Are there logs of the warning, if a warning was issued? Why wasn't it a day ban? Why wasn't it a week ban? Why didn't you just tell them to resolve it with a private-room ban?

Christ, you've got trolls on TK that proudly post logs of their private-room harrassment in their own profiles, and we're consistently told to just private-ban them. Why was this any different? Is this another case of special treatment? Bias?

Why are mods so quick to ban when it comes to people offending them and their friends? I can already feel the "mods are people with emotions too" counterarguments coming, so I'm going to say that I will not debate/argue with anyone about whether or not this discrepancy is acceptable. I find it self-evident that it is not acceptable. Equality, mods.

And you know what, maybe that should change. -- inb4 "lol but there's no TK bill of rights" / bad-dictatorship-metaphor / mods are allowed to do this!

The act of "reporting" someone is increasingly becoming a "low blow" to us regular Keep-users. This reflects the reality that the act of "reporting" someone is producing results even in cases where it was entirely unnecessary to "report" someone to begin with. It's being abused. :\