1337 Permabanned? Gone Forever? I doubt few will shed a tear for that... but...

[1337]

Hello denizens of TK. Your friendly neighborhood 1337 here. Just bringing a subject to the light of day to see what the general population thinks.

I know most of you might know me or know of me and subsequently hate me but good or bad I'd like opinions. Recently I have been permanently banished from The Keep and I feel as though it was slightly skewed. The rules cited in the reasoning for my banishment (which took quite some investigating to figure out in the first place) seemed a bit flimsy at best and I greatly feel that the decision was based on my reputation more so than the actual transgression at hand.

Unfortunately I don't have the logs of what exactly was said, but I assure you it included some extraordinarily adult language. However, while I am in fact guilty of using blatant profanity there was no real harassment involved. It was just cursing for the sake of cursing, and I wasn't alone in my endeavor. It may have been a lapse of judgment but it was not meant to be hurtful, and as far as I know the person I was talking to didn't seem offended for that was not the intention. My point being it was a victimless crime. Had I known someone was being offended I wouldn't have bothered. It was just harmless midnight banter for ****s and giggles.

Furthermore. I feel as though the moderator in question seemed a little...vehement. I'm not sure if it was his intention but he seemed to refuse to talk to me about the situation. Luckily a friend of mine sympathized with situation and played messenger for me.

"18:42:03 [Moondog whispers to Username Withheld] Rockin'. Sorry you're stuck doing message relaying.
18:42:42 [Username Withheld whispers to Moondog] Oh it's no problem. He's a roleplaying friend and a driving force behind this plotline, so I felt more of a responsibility than an obligation."

Which I am greatly thankful for. I have nothing against Moondog, I don't know 'em. But I felt particularly wronged for his almost blatant refusal to speak to me of the situation. I sent him multiple emails which went unanswered and even went as far to add his MSN which he did not reciprocate (Which admittedly might have just been a problem with the messenger). But my RP colleague brought it up in their conversation multiple times that I wanted to talk to him personally to get a better grasp on things. Moondog either ignored it, or refused.

Here he evades speaking to me.
"18:43:47 [Username Withheld whispers to Moondog] He still insists that he talk to you about it personally. He feels wronged because he said they were just messing around with each other.
18:45:51 [Moondog whispers to Username Withheld] Whether or not he's messing around doesn't change the fact that he broke the rules. I'm not willing to compromise that position. If he wants, he can always make a thread on the forums pleading his case.
18:47:17 [Username Withheld whispers to Moondog] Woah, so even though it was all in good fun and they were joking, you're still citing that using the language against someone is against the rules? Don't you think that's a victimless crime?"

and here he refuses rather rudely.
"18:49:02 [Username Withheld whispers to Moondog] He says he acknowledges the ban and all, he just would like it to not be permanent.
18:49:14 [Username Withheld whispers to Moondog] Which is why I think he wants to talk to you.
18:49:30 [Moondog whispers to Username Withheld] I'm sure he would. Here's the thing. I'm sick of his shit."

I have the rest of the logs of the conversation should anyone want to read the whole thing in it's entirety.

I'm not an innocent man. I know how I've acted in the past and how I still act here and there. But I'm a decent roleplayer and my main focus is RP'ing. I'm not trying to make Moondog out to be an evil tyrant either. There's some legitimacy behind his thinking and I have a great respect for his ultimate decision.

"19:01:34 [Moondog whispers to Username Withheld] Hm. I tell you what, I've already made my mind up, perhaps somewhat unreasonably, so I'm going to remove my decision from the running. Therefore, I'm going to leave the ban in place (for now), and bring it up with the rest of the moderation staff. If one of them agrees that permanent banishment is too harsh, I'll relent and knock it down to thirty days."

I'm not trying to pretend I'm not an ***hole. I'm well aware of the fact. But if it weren't for my deliberate attempts to keep out of trouble I wouldn't be as bothered about this. I honestly have been spending more time role playing than anything else as of late. I've gotten involved with a few plots and even ventured to start one of my own. I've made a point to avoid the MainHall, the OOC-Lobby, and other user made rooms of the sort. Honestly. When's the last time any of you seen me in the MH or Lobby? It's been months since I've gone out of my way to bother anyone. I know I'm a jack*** but I've been trying. Apparently it's not enough. But I'm a role player and writer first. My uncouth, rude, and obnoxiousness past shouldn't define me. And I'm willing to try even harder, whatever the terms. If I'm never aloud to OOC again, that's cool. But the fact is I like writing, and even despite the fact that I can be a total ****head, there are quite a few people who overlook that and take the things I say with a grain of salt because I've earned their respect with my RP'ing and creativity.

This doesn't excuse my actions, and the decision is ultimately up to the staff. This is just to see what you, the keeple think.

Sincerely Yours, Dirron 1337 (Aka: Sexual Chocolatelolz)

[Xachariah]

http://nexxushost.com/forums/index.php/topic,63393.0.html

The thread I just linked is far better for this manner of inquiry.

[1337]

I'm pretty certain this is alright here where it is. It's just a discussion thread really to see what the public thinks about the situation.

and if you're referring to the link " http://nexxushost.com/rpg/thekeep/mailform/index.php " in the thread, I've already sent an email to the staff. I just would also like to see what the people of TK think.

That seems about right, no?

[Kade]

This has been happening a lot, and by "this" I mean situations where the rules outlined in the AUP were clearly broken but the AUP itself failed the users.

To break out Auvic's speed limit metaphor:
The speed limit was obviously exceeded, but the speed limit itself needs to be changed.

My condolences, man. The AUP needs a revision, or the people interpreting the AUP need to change their tune.

And forget those hardline "TK is a dictatorship" preachers. They'd shit bricks all over these forums if one of their own was banned.

[1337]

This has been happening a lot, and by "this" I mean situations where the rules outlined in the AUP were clearly broken but the AUP itself failed the users.

To break out Auvic's speed limit metaphor:
The speed limit was obviously exceeded, but the speed limit itself needs to be changed.

My condolences, man. The AUP needs a revision, or the people interpreting the AUP need to change their tune.

And forget those hardline "TK is a dictatorship" preachers. They'd shit bricks all over these forums if one of their own was banned.

Amen. Thanks Kade. +10 cool points.

[Silent.Kamikaze]

Give him a delicious pie.

[1337]

Oh I did. A delicious, DELICIOUS pie.

[Xachariah]

Nope, didn't mean the mailform. Seems that that particular thread that I linked gets more attention than the ones on here - I'm not all that surprised, though I can't quite say why.

Also, without a look at the logs of the event leading to the ban, it's rather hard to form an informed opinion, and I hate being asked my feelings on a matter I know only one side of, and haven't had the opportunity to see. So, no opinion for you.

Props to Moondog for his admission and subsequent submission for review, though. I've already stated my feelings on the AUP, not that they really matter all that much and may have gone completely unnoticed, elsewhere.

Also, while tK isn't a democracy, I wouldn't entirely say it's a dictatorship, either. Yes, I know that might not make a hell of a lot of sense, but I just don't really feel it's accurate to call it a dictatorship. Perhaps an oligarchy, or something.

Aside from that, that kind of thing mostly crops up when people are yowling to get unbanned, not awaiting a decision on a now-being-reviewed matter. Further side-note: I don't recall shitting bricks when Sid got banned, myself; I recall, instead, calling him an idiot for doing what he did. Or doesn't he count?

[1337]

Wish I had the logs. -- But like I said. I'm not questioning Moondog's decision to ban me. That's up to him. I just don't think it should be permanent and wish he wasn't so hard pressed to avoid talking to me in a civil manner.

[Xachariah]

From the looks of it, he's sick of dealing with you, which kind of gives me the feeling that you've done something to cause him to be sick of you. Talking to him directly would likely get nowhere.

[1337]

Well considering the fact that his intervention wasn't even necessarily needed....

And regardless. It's his job as a moderator. I don't care how obnoxious someone is they deserve to at least know why they were banned. Which is why I tried contacting him in the first place. Because I was given no reason when I was banned.

I had left myself logged in on my X-Men RP profile username when I went to sleep that night. and found I was banned when I tried to log into another username that morning. I whispered him. He sent me a nice long paragraph explaining why I was banned, but then immediately after sending it to me he banned me. I barely got two words into the message before I was back at the login page with a big read "You have been banished from this room or from the chat."

I sent him mutiple emails just to find out WHY I was banned and got nothing. Even added him on MSN, nothing. It wasn't until my friend inquired as to why I was banned that I got any headway. and even then he wouldn't talk to me.

I don't care how obnoxious the offender is. It doesn't mean the moderator can act that way. You can't just ban someone and then ignore them. I mean, you can, but does that seem like good moderating to you? I just feel it could have been handled better.

I'm not being incredibly unreasonable here, am I?

[Ramber]

It is clear that you are trying your best to work out the problem and trying to compromise, and to get permabanned, in my opinion, is  just outright unfair. Seeing that I am (or was) involved in one of the storylines you've recently gotten off of the ground, I can at least say that you've been trying to get a lot of genuine play in lately. You should at least be given a chance because...this is just bogus.

[H]

He said the mods are gonna have a round table review and decide if permanent banning is warranted. Cool your jets and just wait for a decision. Sometimes it takes a little bit for all of the necessary people to weigh in but I'm sure that once they've figured it out, they'll let you know. Until then, take a nap or something.

[1337]

It's just a discussion. I wanted to see the opinions of other people.

[Inquisitor]

He said the mods are gonna have a round table review and decide if permanent banning is warranted. Cool your jets and just wait for a decision. Sometimes it takes a little bit for all of the necessary people to weigh in but I'm sure that once they've figured it out, they'll let you know. Until then, take a nap or something.

Without logs this is all a moot point to argue, but I'd like to let you all know that "it's up for review" is moderator speak for "it's lost in bureaucracy". It's a really easy way for Moondog to wash his hands of the whole thing and act like it's not up to him anymore. Meanwhile everything as slow as humanly possible and none of the other moderators even know something's up to review and maybe you'll hear back in a few decades when everyone is up to the same speed.

[Inquisitor]

There were also instances where when I was banned Shane flat-out refused to speak to me regarding the ban and admitted in chat that he was ignoring my IM messages and what not requesting I get in contact with him, so good luck. It's not like any of this is new.

[Kill Boy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkW_ZkMtmlQ

[Moondog]

Wish I had the logs. -- But like I said. I'm not questioning Moondog's decision to ban me. That's up to him. I just don't think it should be permanent and wish he wasn't so hard pressed to avoid talking to me in a civil manner.

I've got a decent chunk of them. I could post 'em if you want.

also I wasn't adverse to letting you grab my messenger and talk with me on there, as I said so numerous times to your friend.

The things just never went through and I'm not entirely sure why or how.

Also, I think the 'mailform' link is still broken. I'm not sure.

[Kade]

I don't care how obnoxious the offender is. It doesn't mean the moderator can act that way. You can't just ban someone and then ignore them. I mean, you can, but does that seem like good moderating to you? I just feel it could have been handled better.

Mods on CC do this all the time.
And CC blows.

Also, Inquisitor, I think you meant moot* point. I kind of agree with the rest of what you said though. "Review" comes off like a stalling tactic. Maybe I wouldn't feel that way if I saw more 'good things' come of 'reviews'.

It might just be a simple matter of users being more vocal about the bad than the good, though.

[Icon]

I don't care how obnoxious the offender is. It doesn't mean the moderator can act that way. You can't just ban someone and then ignore them. I mean, you can, but does that seem like good moderating to you? I just feel it could have been handled better.

Mods on CC do this all the time.
And CC blows.

Also, Inquisitor, I think you meant moot* point.

Who the hell cares? This isn't CC. Whatever people over there do is their own issue (or not), and has absolutely zero relevance to the matter at hand. Congratulations. You accomplished nothing.

[Kade]

Who the hell cares? This isn't CC. Whatever people over there do is their own issue (or not), and has absolutely zero relevance to the matter at hand. Congratulations. You accomplished nothing.

0 = 0
Your "nothing" isn't bigger than mine, Mr. Hostile.

[Xachariah]

People generally are more vocal about the bad than the good. Do you hear about any of the times where a mod gets called and summarily fixes the problem with minimal fuss?

Of course not, because nobody's going to make a thread about a good modding on the forums. There's just no point - the issue is resolved. You might hear that a particular mod does their shit well, but you'll only hear about that when you're in need of one, and only if you start asking around.

Aside from that, man, yeah, we know CC is a shithole. The reminder is pointless. (And I'm tempted to mock you for correcting Sid's spelling, but fuck it, I just woke up and I'm usually a little ornery without a whole hell of a lot of my mind being in town to explain it.)

Also, it's great that everybody just goes "well, he's letting the other mods review it and figure out what kind of ban is deserved (because he apparently thinks he might be inclined to be a little too hard on the ban-ee), that must be a stalling tactic rather than an attempt to ensure fairness." In case nobody's noticed, the mods have crazy schedules. Sometimes Moondog is about the only one around, and I really wouldn't be surprised if that's because the others simply aren't at their computers (which is perfectly alright, but inconducive to quick reviewing of issues).

tl;dr people talk about bad more than good all the time, cc is a shithole, and chill the fuck out, the mods aren't COBRA COMMANDERS or something, shit

I'm curious about the logs, but I'm not going to demand they be posted; my opinion remains neutral until I see them, as I really don't have any intention of making up my mind on the issue until I do. As for the banning-while-reading thing, it's unfortunate, but I figure he knew it'd get explained anyway.

[1337]

Wish I had the logs. -- But like I said. I'm not questioning Moondog's decision to ban me. That's up to him. I just don't think it should be permanent and wish he wasn't so hard pressed to avoid talking to me in a civil manner.

I've got a decent chunk of them. I could post 'em if you want.

also I wasn't adverse to letting you grab my messenger and talk with me on there, as I said so numerous times to your friend.

The things just never went through and I'm not entirely sure why or how.

Also, I think the 'mailform' link is still broken. I'm not sure.

I wouldn't mind the logs be posted.

Like I said. I'm guilty. My emphasis in my original post was that I'm a driving force in the RP community and have made a decent effort at reform on my behavior and should my ban end up not being permanent I will make an even stronger effort to behave myself.

The conversation in question was just really me and someone else cursing for the sake of cursing. The only log I have is "7:24:15 [Ichigo] Carpet munching shit fucking nigger toe sucking ass licking sack of fucking cocks." The thing that bugs me, is that the message before that posted by the other user was only, roughly two cuss words less than that one.

While I PERSONALLY don't agree that the rules cited completely warrant a ban, since I wasn't particularly trying to offend anyone (and to my knowledge, I don't believe I did offend anyone but the Mod, but I could be wrong about that. I say this because the user that the above log was pseudo-directed at made a point to make a joke about how she was more offended by another user calling her Cassiopeia or something of the sort, which I remember being particularly funny.) In the end it's up to the mods.

I'll take my punishment whatever they decide, perma or not. I just wanted to emphasize my wish for a final chance. I feel the situation is slanted because of my history, and while I'm no where near the same obnoxious troll as I used to be, I'm responsible for that history so in the end any unfairness I feel is my fault.

Just don't want to roll over and take this permaban lying down. I've been on TK for years, good or bad and I'd like to stick around.

[Inquisitor]

If all you're doing is cursing for the sake of cursing, I've seen a ban for spam go in place. But anything more then ten days for a legitimate player seems ridiculous.

[1337]

It really wasn't my intention to harass anyone. I wasn't trying to be purposefully offensive for the sake of being offensive. I don't even think I initiated the conversation. But I don't really remember without the logs.