Mod Voting Debate Thread

[Silent.Kamikaze]

That's not cool. I haven't even posted anything stupid in this thread.

I didn't say anything about you posting in this particular thread, just about your posting habits in general. Cheer up.

[Gigi]

I enjoy putting emphasis on key words. You don't have to like it. I don't have to care, and I don't. Trust me.

It seems like the only thing some people around here have done is to insult others because that's about all they can do. And then they call others immature. That is not what this thread was made for, or at least I don't think it was. If none of you can have a proper debate with others without having to resort to such lows as these then I must say

>I am dissapoint <--- C wut I did thur?

Beware Inquistor, she's going to retort with more bold and get this- pictures that are slightly more witty than 1337's which isn't saying very much, God Forbid she breaks out in PONIES!
Gigi really is the epitome of wit and clever retorts, especially with all those wonderful memes at her disposal!

Cool story, bro

No more pics for tonight though. Maybe tomorrow.

[1337]

Well since all of you hate me anyway.



At the very least, maybe now that I'm posting pony pictures everyone will suddenly find it unfunny and shut the **** up about the ponies.

Or post more ponies just to contradict the aforementioned prediction above.

[Auvic]

Edit: Seriously, guys. In the time it took me to write this up, there were three new replies - and all of them were worthless. At least take the shitposting out of the politika forum, please.

Okay, so. All the shitposting in this thread aside, I have a question for you, Draco.

...I was going to say something about the numbers of people voting "Eh, I'm more or less 50-50" hasn't been that big, but in at least two of the polls, that number was close to 20% of the people that voted, total.

Here's numbers, in any case :
Yes/No/Abstain
Drew: 12/1/4  = 70.5%
Syn: 14/1/4 = 73.6%
Moon: 45/23/1 = 65.2%
Irra: 16/2/3 = 76.1%
If we wanted to go off a 75% approval required for mod-ship, the only mod we'd have is Irra, by those terms. 66%, or 2/3, would give us Irra, Syn, and Drew.
Mind you, I'm not arguing whether that's good or bad or anything - just pointing out the numbers.

But what I wanted to ask about was this:

A two/thirds, or three/fourths majority doesn't stop the problem of the vote being more like a popularity contest, but it does make it easier to be voted down, if you aren't actually doing a decent enough job.

You mentioned that this was something of a popularity contest. Yeah, sure. But how would you fix that?

As to the majorities:
By 3/4 majority, we keep a mod. Eh.
By 2/3 majority, we keep most of our mods. Doesn't change much. ( And if you say 65.2% is close enough to 66, we keep Moon, too. )
You argued a bunch for making it so that abstaining wouldn't 'throw your vote away', I believe - maybe I didn't get your intentions right - but it doesn't seem like anyone's really throwing their vote away when they abstain.
So where's the argument here?
The numbers Webby posts are whatever he wants to post - by even your own rules, we'd have, more or less, what we have anyway.

[Auvic]

Draco's answer, more or less, for anyone who cares:

22:03:34 [Draco whispers to Auvic] And hell, my intial statement wasn't even concerned with fixing it to something better, I said we should just stop the worthless polls outright. They are a waste of everyone's time. Anyone who gets a Poll gets in, there are no standards as long as you have friends. THAT was my main point... stop wasting time.

[Xachariah]

I feel I should point out, to accompany Auvic's post: The polls... continued to let people vote on them after the mod was decided. I shall now quote Web's resolution post in each of them:

Resulting Approval Rate: 93.333%

Of the people who voted in this approval poll, only one had issues with Syn. Six had either no views or had no interactions with her out of the 21 voters. That leaves 14/15 votes, or in other words, 93.333 percent approval.

Resulting Approval Rate: 92.31%

Of the people who voted in this approval poll, only one had issues with Drew. Six had either no views or had no interactions with him out of the 19 voters. That leaves 12/13 votes, or in other words, 92.31 percent approval.

Resulting Approval Rate: 88.9%

Of the people who voted in this approval poll, only two had issues with Irrationalist. Five had either no views or had no interactions with him out of the 23 voters. That leaves 16/18 votes, or in other words, 88.888 percent approval.

Moondog, actually, doesn't have a post to indicate the end result, but, well... I think I've made my point.

That point being, the polls on the other threads didn't lock voting out when the trial mods became full mods.

[Auvic]

Thing is, Xach, the numbers I was running counted the abstains as well, not just the vote for/against - I suppose I should re-run them just in case people were voting post-poll, but yeah.

[Xachariah]

Ah, okay. There're even numbers indicating how many abstained, too, in those quotes.

[Soja]

Dropping the official face for a moment, can't you fucks ever have a discussion without getting into petty clique fights?

I forget how we arrived at this over the semantics of how an 'Abstain' vote counts.

That said, while I tend to agree with Draco's ultimate summary about the polls being 'useless,' I DO think they are valuable if only for the fact that they provide an outlet for those with grievances to air them before anything is made official.

[Xachariah]

Dropping the official face for a moment, can't you fucks ever have a discussion without getting into petty clique fights?

I forget how we arrived at this over the semantics of how an 'Abstain' vote counts.

What he said.

[MadMusician]

Wait a second. Voting?

If a Mod was actually doing their job, and doing it right, woulden't they have an approval rating of like, 30% most of the time? Because there's a whole lot of people that woulden't like it if a Mod actually...you know, modded.

I perfer a hands off approach, like how Moondog does most of the time, but still. At at least 12 people voted for them each and every time. What's to say....it's not the same at least 12 people who vote yes every time? Because the OOC-lobby/Mainhall, sorry to say, is like the cool kid's club. The same people hang out there, every day, and get each other to like each other. Assuming the person being voted for had a vote also, that brings it down to...basically, 11.

The fact that ALL the mods have high approval ratings is at the least, alarming. It either means that A: They are doing their jobs so well, everyone on TK loves them, or B: Nobody ever deals with them. Also the fact that this can very well mean that the only people who DO vote are people who A: Really like them and B: People who hate the shit out of them. Which would mean that during their voting/Trial period, they either kept a low profile or made buddybuddies with everyone. Which very well may include the people breaking the rules in the first place, and other people who want to get a go at being a global mod.

Which would mean that accounting for the "Never Interacted with you" will proceed to make them be buddy buddies with even more people, some of them who may be breaking the rules. And the last time I checked, the least liked lawbringers and people who brought down the crackdown on everyone might not of been liked, but they did their job, and still didn't abuse their power, for the most part. And ya know, in the military, the most liked and remembered leaders were more than often not nice. At all. They were reasonable, logical...and outright assholes. Nobody likes an asshole: But they are fucking good at what they do. I mean, just look at all the assholes in history. Donald Trump (He fires people on a fucking whim) was an asshole. General Patton (Who slapped a soldier suffering from shellshock.) was an asshole. Henry VIII (Made his own damn church and killed his wives, for fucks sake) was an asshole.

Think they were liked?

I guess my point is that polls really arn't working.

[Inquisitor]

Seems like your gripe is with the voting populous then, not the polls. More than enough is provided here; it's not the fault of Web/the staff that no one comes to the forums to vote and discuss things, it's entirely on the people who use the site and are happy enough to not give a shit who's voted in and who isn't.

[Lugh]

Personally, I think it's amazing that the users even get a say in choosing the staff, especially this chat's users.

[Pink]

I like Familiar a lot and I wish the best for her with whatever she wants to do.

I don't like and think a good chunk of the mod staff makes bad decisions, but Familiar is a very sweet girl with a good heart. I think that with Ezra not really around, she'll be a great addition. At this point, I fully support her...until at least, I think that her decisions are bad. Then, you know, I'll go on my crusades.

But for now, you guys could just use someone who's nice and good. I just worry about the job making an already stressed girl more stressed.

SO BE NICE TO HER, OKAY. OR I'LL SOCK YA. ALL OF YA.

[TheMadHatter]

Alright, so if we can’t really agree on what needs to change with the poll itself or what percent actually counts at approving a mod, I do think there is something we can change. I’ve been told by several people that they don’t use the forums or they don’t know where to go in and even find this poll. Maybe to get more people to vote for things like this we need to advertise that there is a moderator approval poll and easy access to get there for the other users of the keep. If they don’t frequently check the forums it makes sense to have it in the advertisements or the welcome message when they enter the room (mainhall/Lobby) they know they have the option of voting. If they’re link to the poll right away then I think more people will be likely to give their opinions.

[Kade]

Seems like your gripe is with the voting populous then, not the polls. More than enough is provided here; it's not the fault of Web/the staff that no one comes to the forums to vote and discuss things, it's entirely on the people who use the site and are happy enough to not give a shit who's voted in and who isn't.

Quite a lot of effort is expended running people off of the forums by trolls/shitposters, butthurters, and general assholes.

[Inquisitor]

Seems like your gripe is with the voting populous then, not the polls. More than enough is provided here; it's not the fault of Web/the staff that no one comes to the forums to vote and discuss things, it's entirely on the people who use the site and are happy enough to not give a shit who's voted in and who isn't.

Quite a lot of effort is expended running people off of the forums by trolls/shitposters, butthurters, and general assholes.

Are you kidding? No one ever gets run off the forums. I've been trying to get 1337 and Dalton to leave forever!

[Gigi]

Alright, so if we can’t really agree on what needs to change with the poll itself or what percent actually counts at approving a mod, I do think there is something we can change. I’ve been told by several people that they don’t use the forums or they don’t know where to go in and even find this poll. Maybe to get more people to vote for things like this we need to advertise that there is a moderator approval poll and easy access to get there for the other users of the keep. If they don’t frequently check the forums it makes sense to have it in the advertisements or the welcome message when they enter the room (mainhall/Lobby) they know they have the option of voting. If they’re link to the poll right away then I think more people will be likely to give their opinions.

That is a good idea. To inform the masses of what is going on so that they can make an informed decision.

[Kade]

Good idea, Hatter.

A banner advertisement about it, maybe. Or some a couple global announcements about it every day or so.

[TheMadHatter]

I agree a banner advertisement, announcements, and it wouldn't hurt to have a message and link in the mainhall (because people enter it by default). The message is to only inform and not suggest you should vote yes or no. I believe this should be done every time a moderation poll comes out so the community can be more involved.

[1337]

Seems like your gripe is with the voting populous then, not the polls. More than enough is provided here; it's not the fault of Web/the staff that no one comes to the forums to vote and discuss things, it's entirely on the people who use the site and are happy enough to not give a shit who's voted in and who isn't.

Quite a lot of effort is expended running people off of the forums by trolls/shitposters, butthurters, and general assholes.

Are you kidding? No one ever gets run off the forums. I've been trying to get 1337 and Dalton to leave forever!

I'm pretty sure this conversation was re-railed by my last pony. -- COINCIDENCE!? I think not.

You're welcome.

[B[ M ]K]

[Solum]

Perhaps it's best to leave the option to just three votes in the future. Yes/No/Abstain.

And take the percentage from the Yes by itself?

I vote just Yes and No. Unless the abstained votes will be counted for/against the user, they'd be pointless. I know when I abstain from voting on election day, I just shut the fuck up and don't go to the polls. I don't show up at the and drop in a piece of paper that says 'abstain'. lol