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Author Topic: Staying around here  (Read 12585 times)

General_Iowa

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Staying around here
« on: October 12, 2015, 12:02:25 PM »

I honestly think I am starting to get to the point where I may leave TK and never come back.  Most of the people I ever really cared about have done so on a permanent or near permanent basis and I honestly don't get into conversations in rooms anymore because I get the honest feeling most of the people in the spots I go could care less if I say anything even with knowing them for years.
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MEGAMADMUSICIAN

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 03:43:41 PM »



But in all honesty, a fair amount of people are feeling like that.
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Karasu

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2015, 07:41:29 AM »

Other options exist. Most don't leave TK permanently, as I stand as proof, but that's a choice each makes individually.

I've noticed the apathy in TK growing as well. But then again I think the reasons stem somewhat with handfuls of users and the economic and social idioms IRL too. Do try and be patient though. You never know what will come if you're not there for it or part of the change in making it.
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MEGAMADMUSICIAN

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2015, 06:21:58 PM »

I can actually elaborate on this a bit more.

Over the past couple of years, I've noticed an unhealthy obsession with many TKers of wanting to know the personal buisness of the person they're RPing with. It used to never be this way, and things used to go much smoother as a result.

Sure the person you're playing with might be batshit insane, but people wanted to RP more than to ask political questions.

At some point though, people decided that they HAD to personally know someone, should it be because they liked the person or because they were trying to find a way to discredit the mook because 'there's no way he's stabbed someone with a knife IRL before" or whatever bullshit reason of the day is. As a result, while some users ramped up their Social Combat abilities, others decided to go full defense, and they shut nearly completely down. They get very cautious about who they want to RP with, because that's precisely what they want to avoid.

There's honestly a whole bunch of bullshit that went into things being like how they are on TK, because I've seen this shit happen before.
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Karasu

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2015, 08:13:27 PM »

I can actually elaborate on this a bit more.

Over the past couple of years, I've noticed an unhealthy obsession with many TKers of wanting to know the personal buisness of the person they're RPing with. It used to never be this way, and things used to go much smoother as a result.

Sure the person you're playing with might be batshit insane, but people wanted to RP more than to ask political questions.

At some point though, people decided that they HAD to personally know someone, should it be because they liked the person or because they were trying to find a way to discredit the mook because 'there's no way he's stabbed someone with a knife IRL before" or whatever bullshit reason of the day is. As a result, while some users ramped up their Social Combat abilities, others decided to go full defense, and they shut nearly completely down. They get very cautious about who they want to RP with, because that's precisely what they want to avoid.

There's honestly a whole bunch of bullshit that went into things being like how they are on TK, because I've seen this shit happen before.

I think this is the first time you've blown my damn mind.

It's nice though to see that you've hit the nail pretty much on the head.

Most people in TK by now do know other players by name, and insist on playing with players not characters. To be fair, players do fall into ruts of being typecasters and playing the same rehash stuff, but, the site as a whole wasn't really set to be user to user as an rp medium. Escapism is supposed to be about avoiding who we are or were and gaining things we aren't or that we want to be. I think a number of people forgot that and just went either into the ic Arms Race ideology*, or they capped themselves and after years of the same tired stuff got bored of seeing bland ideas and acts or things they circled the habits of doing.

I've tended to avoid Arms Race myself.
Seen where it ends and I'd rather enjoy the mundane than burn out everything nearby for the sake of false power and short-lived gains.

Chat hasn't changed much in two decades though(Added OOC Lobby, Desert, and Cafe pretty much.). I still remember fighting the opening of the OOC Lobby ages ago when the Mainhall was the hinge for that kinda thing. Water Jess, Shiewie, Jade's occasional stop in. Kinda miss it. I remember the lectures I tried and failed to be heard in that the "Elites(Stronk peeps[Good combat skill, and ability to convey things well in posts and keep good plot.])", "Elders[Oldbies]", and "Ancients[Generally people I remember from the late 90's of super-early chat.]" were essentially cannibalizing the youth of the site by refusing to accept or allow them to live long enough to grow in the sites ideals before they got axed for being too annoyingly new or uncouth, without any attempt to enlighten or help them. Not much has changed at all I guess.

Difference in having more years to see it though is that occasionally some things do surprise me. Even with all the drab normalcies, good characters and players have come and gone. And interesting twists in the chat have happened. So far it's been a fairly good run... barring most recent history.

* =>[Trying to be stronk or Alpha in a place dependent on user interactions and equality. Or Veteran status. Hi oldbies, yes you're old. Doesn't afford you much does it? Sucks knowing we have ages of experience and plot built beyond understanding of others, and that they enter the field with as much right as us to clear the field or alter the play setup. I empathize.]
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AsinineVulpine

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 05:13:02 PM »

fuck it

I have something constructive (I hope) to add, in that I have an additional viewpoint to throw into the mix.

With busy lives and such, some of the older, more established RPers find themselves often unable to dedicate large amounts of time to a roleplay. Rather than being able to dive right in any time they like and not worry a single damn about it, being able to dedicate hours and hours of their day to roleplaying at random now they have to find gaps in their busy work and responsibility-filled lives, and if you get started on some interesting roleplay with someone, you don't want it to suddenly die because you can't find the person again.

"Back in the day" all roleplay was centralised around one room, the main hall. Everything began there, and most things ENDED there too. It was the main room for roleplay and pretty much every interaction at least BEGAN in that room, if it didn't move off to another at some point to have a more focused set of interactions (yes that DOES include cyber, snickering gentlefellows in the back; you can stop guffawing, it wasn't always just sex). Nowadays, with the destruction of the Mainhall as it was, and with roleplay now being spread out all over the site, there's no central room any more, now it's all divided up into groups of friends and cliqués (which granted there were back in the day too but there were far fewer users so even those cliqués interacted with other ones and newbies simply because its all there was).

The pool of available RPers is far, FAR greater than it ever was "in the good old days", but all the established players have grown up, gotten jobs and gotten maybe even married and have responsibilities and such. As such rather than risk devoting a few hours and getting a taste of osmething that's truly interesting, only to never get to explore it any further because the other person never shows up again, they want to know who the person on the other end of the screen is so they can chat and find out when the best times to continue the story are, because time is precious and if they can't meet up regularly, or can't ever meet up again, there's no point continuing let alone starting.

Which unfortunately with aforementioned cageyness perpetuated by dickholes who use it like a weapon to make themselves feel superior, and crazy nutjobs who can't separate fantasy from reality, compounds the problem until people just... simply don't get to RP any more.
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Rom Spaceknight

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 09:14:31 PM »

Did you dummies start a thread to cry about the scourge of SJWs lmao

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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MEGAMADMUSICIAN

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 05:12:17 AM »

Did you dummies start a thread to cry about the scourge of SJWs lmao

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

The only one who mentioned them was you.

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Fenris

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2015, 09:57:28 PM »

fuck it

I have something constructive (I hope) to add, in that I have an additional viewpoint to throw into the mix.

With busy lives and such, some of the older, more established RPers find themselves often unable to dedicate large amounts of time to a roleplay. Rather than being able to dive right in any time they like and not worry a single damn about it, being able to dedicate hours and hours of their day to roleplaying at random now they have to find gaps in their busy work and responsibility-filled lives, and if you get started on some interesting roleplay with someone, you don't want it to suddenly die because you can't find the person again.

"Back in the day" all roleplay was centralised around one room, the main hall. Everything began there, and most things ENDED there too. It was the main room for roleplay and pretty much every interaction at least BEGAN in that room, if it didn't move off to another at some point to have a more focused set of interactions (yes that DOES include cyber, snickering gentlefellows in the back; you can stop guffawing, it wasn't always just sex). Nowadays, with the destruction of the Mainhall as it was, and with roleplay now being spread out all over the site, there's no central room any more, now it's all divided up into groups of friends and cliqués (which granted there were back in the day too but there were far fewer users so even those cliqués interacted with other ones and newbies simply because its all there was).

The pool of available RPers is far, FAR greater than it ever was "in the good old days", but all the established players have grown up, gotten jobs and gotten maybe even married and have responsibilities and such. As such rather than risk devoting a few hours and getting a taste of osmething that's truly interesting, only to never get to explore it any further because the other person never shows up again, they want to know who the person on the other end of the screen is so they can chat and find out when the best times to continue the story are, because time is precious and if they can't meet up regularly, or can't ever meet up again, there's no point continuing let alone starting.

Which unfortunately with aforementioned cageyness perpetuated by dickholes who use it like a weapon to make themselves feel superior, and crazy nutjobs who can't separate fantasy from reality, compounds the problem until people just... simply don't get to RP any more.

You made some interesting points here. People change, they get/have jobs, have sex, procreate, get more responsibilities etc. Situational and relationship dynamics change, you can't change that, but how you respond or react to it is whats really important.

The main-hall thing is especially of interest as I came at a point where the MH was already purely OOC, but you describing it as a centralized RP hub that regulated things might have been where things went "Wrong"? Or rather when this paradigm ended? (Though this does seem like a limited concept, but I can see how it might work at the same time.) However this does seem to lead to a "cliquish" mentality but no more than people claimed for the Arena. However when I look at TK now, it seems more people are concerned with cuddle fucking, and being sycophantic than actually being creative. I don't mean this as a shot, but this place has become more akin to some sort of "hang out" sure there's still RP, but clearly most people notice a change in the atmosphere. I also think people are more lazy and less prone to creativity. They would rather have everything laid out on a silver platter, which is why RP is so compartmentalized right now. Most Rps are canons or original concepts concocted by a few niche individuals who are good at that sort of thing. While people who still freeform either come off (rightfully or otherwise) as overpowered and overly competitive, nonsensical, etc. So no one wants to interact in broad terms anymore. Basically Everyone is too jaded. The people who freeform either consider everyone else inferior and batshit crazy (rightfully or otherwise.) and people who might have problems refuse to acknowledge them, while neutral parties who might have otherwise gotten involved say "Fuck this." and never even bother after seeing all the stress involved.

But as Asanine said, people just get sick of not being constructive and want something more, and small groups seems to be where they are getting this from. Essentially what it comes down too is even if you find an ideal RP that's no guarantee there will be ideal schedules. It's just how the cookie crumbles. The toxic environment is also definitely something to consider, and its just gotten old and most people just don't want to deal with going into a room and immediately having to deal with some bullshit cause someone is mad over something that may or may not have happened in a fictional collaboration. : I

My first reaction was to tell you to get over it G_I but in all actuality you bringing this up raised some points that probably needed to be addressed. If you want to leave TK go ahead, but if anyone has any ideas on how to fix these issues maybe they should bring them up. If nobody sees a problem then fuck it.

(Partisan Statements will not be very productive btw, and is part of the problem.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 10:10:46 PM by Fenris »
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Karasu

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 03:32:09 AM »

fuck it

I have something constructive (I hope) to add, in that I have an additional viewpoint to throw into the mix.

With busy lives and such, some of the older, more established RPers find themselves often unable to dedicate large amounts of time to a roleplay. Rather than being able to dive right in any time they like and not worry a single damn about it, being able to dedicate hours and hours of their day to roleplaying at random now they have to find gaps in their busy work and responsibility-filled lives, and if you get started on some interesting roleplay with someone, you don't want it to suddenly die because you can't find the person again.

"Back in the day" all roleplay was centralised around one room, the main hall. Everything began there, and most things ENDED there too. It was the main room for roleplay and pretty much every interaction at least BEGAN in that room, if it didn't move off to another at some point to have a more focused set of interactions (yes that DOES include cyber, snickering gentlefellows in the back; you can stop guffawing, it wasn't always just sex). Nowadays, with the destruction of the Mainhall as it was, and with roleplay now being spread out all over the site, there's no central room any more, now it's all divided up into groups of friends and cliqués (which granted there were back in the day too but there were far fewer users so even those cliqués interacted with other ones and newbies simply because its all there was).

The pool of available RPers is far, FAR greater than it ever was "in the good old days", but all the established players have grown up, gotten jobs and gotten maybe even married and have responsibilities and such. As such rather than risk devoting a few hours and getting a taste of osmething that's truly interesting, only to never get to explore it any further because the other person never shows up again, they want to know who the person on the other end of the screen is so they can chat and find out when the best times to continue the story are, because time is precious and if they can't meet up regularly, or can't ever meet up again, there's no point continuing let alone starting.

Which unfortunately with aforementioned cageyness perpetuated by dickholes who use it like a weapon to make themselves feel superior, and crazy nutjobs who can't separate fantasy from reality, compounds the problem until people just... simply don't get to RP any more.

You made some interesting points here. People change, they get/have jobs, have sex, procreate, get more responsibilities etc. Situational and relationship dynamics change, you can't change that, but how you respond or react to it is whats really important.

The main-hall thing is especially of interest as I came at a point where the MH was already purely OOC, but you describing it as a centralized RP hub that regulated things might have been where things went "Wrong"? Or rather when this paradigm ended? (Though this does seem like a limited concept, but I can see how it might work at the same time.) However this does seem to lead to a "cliquish" mentality but no more than people claimed for the Arena. However when I look at TK now, it seems more people are concerned with cuddle fucking, and being sycophantic than actually being creative. I don't mean this as a shot, but this place has become more akin to some sort of "hang out" sure there's still RP, but clearly most people notice a change in the atmosphere. I also think people are more lazy and less prone to creativity. They would rather have everything laid out on a silver platter, which is why RP is so compartmentalized right now. Most Rps are canons or original concepts concocted by a few niche individuals who are good at that sort of thing. While people who still freeform either come off (rightfully or otherwise) as overpowered and overly competitive, nonsensical, etc. So no one wants to interact in broad terms anymore. Basically Everyone is too jaded. The people who freeform either consider everyone else inferior and batshit crazy (rightfully or otherwise.) and people who might have problems refuse to acknowledge them, while neutral parties who might have otherwise gotten involved say "Fuck this." and never even bother after seeing all the stress involved.

But as Asanine said, people just get sick of not being constructive and want something more, and small groups seems to be where they are getting this from. Essentially what it comes down too is even if you find an ideal RP that's no guarantee there will be ideal schedules. It's just how the cookie crumbles. The toxic environment is also definitely something to consider, and its just gotten old and most people just don't want to deal with going into a room and immediately having to deal with some bullshit cause someone is mad over something that may or may not have happened in a fictional collaboration. : I

My first reaction was to tell you to get over it G_I but in all actuality you bringing this up raised some points that probably needed to be addressed. If you want to leave TK go ahead, but if anyone has any ideas on how to fix these issues maybe they should bring them up. If nobody sees a problem then fuck it.

(Partisan Statements will not be very productive btw, and is part of the problem.

I do not as a freeform entity believe all are below me or batshit. I do loathe the fanfic sorts to a degree(Mostly because, and god forgive me for having to agree with you on something, it seems to lack creativity by hosting an already pop culture thing into a continuation.).

As for Asanine's comment on the old Mainhall. Sorry for having it brought up if the faith in it was that deeply rooted. For a good run of seven years after about 2001, I never touched it. Rp didn't slow or stop because it hadn't been started or ended in the Mainhall. It wasn't some all important hinge of activity, nor, was it some end all be all. When I was there it was a function. A thought. And it worked well for what it was purposed for. The main entry room and a place old rpers sat and told stories, and young rpers gathered and listened while gaining their motivations for stories to be made. So yes. To a degree it functioned to end and begin lives in the rp sectors, but not exclusively. The Mainhall was a place where IC and OOC were so bridged that half the time you couldn't tell if someone was literally doing something or just making some figurative statement or character action. My opposition was when they wanted to create the OOC Lobby, which at the time and sometimes still I referred to as the OOC Retirement Home. Because in a strictly OOC environment the IC end of the chat tends to wane. Sure people go there to blow steam, talk about life or chat ideas, but overall the habit in there is to be there and just do that alone as some exclusive idiom. Most young players don't flow into it, most old players don't flow back out of it to interact with the populous at large. Overall the issues in the current day and age barely notice the blip that those sorts of things are. The current issues are strictly user interaction. Not young to old, or conveyance of ideas, but the players themselves are on time schedules, ideals, and hindered by the overly knit-pickyness of others in chat. Elitist or not. This wasn't an issue of the old Mainhall, nor of older times "golden years" nostalgia bullshit. It's a relatively recent(within the last 8 years since the economic recessions/depressions) issue facing the chats that has been exponentially amplified by elitism and other fractal sorts of ideals which work to debase the users as a whole.

Back to Fen in closing :
I find it funny that you suggest there is a possible "problem" here. More after you suggest that if others don't see it then whatever, as if it's some possible sensory error, and you're seeing phantoms or something. You're certainly not the only one to know of the issues here, and definitely not the last to suffer on or under them.

Being a fervent zealot may not gain me bonus points Fen, but my statements should be showing you at least one thing by now. TK is my adored home away from my IRL home, and having been with it for two and some decades I'm not about to slip away or stop trying to set forth some betterment in it. Whether you find my statements counterproductive or not either way.




As to any others... I don't think we have SJW anymore. The Lazy Lounge was evicted, and with it possibly any who may take offence or be mild of things. Most people either have their sides in things chosen now, or they're intentionally attempting to firmly middle without touching a side in the hopes the winds will blow different tomorrow. Middle ground sorts are like Syrian refugees atm though : They're anywhere but where they started.
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AsinineVulpine

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 04:00:09 AM »

Lounge wasn't evicted, they decided that, because apparently lots of people were complaining about the Lounge for whatever reason, they'd do the mods a favour and have their own chat so people wouldn't be bothered by their presence any more. It was entirely voluntary, not an 'eviction'. It is however entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, much like the comment about sjws, which is a term made up by people wanting a name to their perceived foe they were fighting against to "save gaming" or some shit, I dunno, the whole gamergate vs sjw nonsense is all bullshit anyway. And also completely irrelevant to the discussion. Moving on.

Regarding the "decline of rp", here's the thing. RP hasn't changed, just the people doing it. The same rps happen, old tk still had canon rps all over the fucking place. Whenever a new cool show or roleplay system or game came out there was always some people who wanted to play in that setting, ALWAYS. There are still the odd little clusters of people wanting to do entirely original things and things BASED on existing properties but with a twist, and that happened way back when as well as now. With the RP advertisement forums though it's a LITTLE easier to set these things up.

Yes the formation of the OOC lobby MIGHT have caused a general destabilising effect whereby it decentralised all the RP, but in the end it was starting to happen ANYWAY before the mainhall was dumped and removed and replaced with the lobby. The mainhall was kinda dying out and was, by the time it was removed when the OOC-Lobby was created, basically exactly what the OOC Lobby WAS, so... yeah. That was bound to happen one way or another; OOC-Lobby was just a bit more honest a name for it if we're completely honest with ourselves.

I've been on this site for nigh on 17 years now. Really, fuck all is changing, just the way things are done, and the people doing it. For those of us who remained locked into looking fondly at "the good old days" (spoiler, they weren't good.), the site became alien and unwelcoming, they decided "enough with this, this isn't home any more". Those of us who were new looked at bemusement at the crotchety "Oldies" who were too elitist and snappy, and the chat felt unwelcoming, so they formed their own rooms and railed against 'the old guard'.

Some of us just stuck around for our own reasons, some because we realised the problem wasn't the chat or the clientele, but us, or that we didn't care what form the chat was taking, we still wanted to see how it all would end, or maybe we just stuck around because we made new friends and in all honesty, we just use the site as a social board for catching up with people and seeing how things are doing. Maybe it's all of the above. Maybe we're the weird ones who won't let go of something we really should. Maybe the newbies have the right idea. Maybe the people who abandoned tK have the right idea.

Maybe freeform RP just isn't as viable as we thought it was.
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Dr. Javi

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 05:10:30 AM »

Did you dummies start a thread to cry about the scourge of SJWs lmao

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
what's sjws?
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Bane

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2015, 09:40:53 AM »

Did you dummies start a thread to cry about the scourge of SJWs lmao

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
what's sjws?
social justice warriors. apparently they don't exist though or something. i don't really know the details.



anyway. Usually, it's just sort of better to leave this sort of thing to itself instead of making announcements or decisions about it. Threads for it tend to mostly be made to express the feeling of change/loss experienced, but final decisions about leaving forever and so forth are a bit dramatic. There's no real saying who'll leave and come back or how things will change.   
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MEGAMADMUSICIAN

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2015, 01:50:15 PM »

Did you dummies start a thread to cry about the scourge of SJWs lmao

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
what's sjws?
social justice warriors. apparently they don't exist though or something. i don't really know the details.



anyway. Usually, it's just sort of better to leave this sort of thing to itself instead of making announcements or decisions about it. Threads for it tend to mostly be made to express the feeling of change/loss experienced, but final decisions about leaving forever and so forth are a bit dramatic. There's no real saying who'll leave and come back or how things will change.   

You've seen the boards before the crash, right?

And you've seen the more recent shit, I wager.

That's what happens when you just leave it alone with no discussion at all. I think it needs to be discussed.

Not acted on. Not overblown. Discussed.
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Dr. Javi

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2015, 04:30:24 PM »

Did you dummies start a thread to cry about the scourge of SJWs lmao

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
what's sjws?
social justice warriors. apparently they don't exist though or something. i don't really know the details.
oh.

i hate those guys.
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