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Author Topic: Staying around here  (Read 12582 times)

Fenris

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2015, 07:10:53 PM »

To Bane: Yeah making announcements tend to just look like you are seeking someone to go "NO DON'T LEAVE I CARE ABOUT YOU I SWEAR!" nobody really gives a shit on here apparently, and emotional investments are not something I recommend, especially if you feel the need to announce your leaving. It just seems mellow-dramatic especially when clearly nobody here even knows who the fuck this General Iowa guy is.

To Karasu: Contrary to popular belief I tend to second guess my own perceptions quite often. Hence why I made the obligatory "disclaimer" that maybe I'm just deluded.

I never even addressed wanting you to leave, or anything to do with you... Maybe you should get over yourself? Hell maybe I'm falling into the age old TK trap, but quite frankly Karasu I consider you nothing more than a gaudy vaguely self aware piece of furniture at this point. Right now for all intents and purposes I'm basically typing to a talking couch.

You quite literally just... went out of your way to address a statement that had nothing to do with you, made it about you, and then might have implied I was trying to censor you or something..? This is exactly the type of shit I'm talking about. We can certainly have a conversation if you want, but the second half of that statement was literally just you talking out the side of your mouth for the sake of simply trying to be passive aggressive... If you don't want to be productive fine, but don't be self righteous about it.

I am completely aware that maybe I just escalated this conversation needlessly, but seriously... This is why we can't have nice things. Maybe I'm a part of that reason too.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 07:20:25 PM by Fenris »
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Naudia

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2015, 10:16:09 PM »

taco
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SilverStreak

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2015, 11:25:12 PM »

Am I the only one who sees an elephant in the room here?

RP, at least as we know it, is a dying hobby. When this was first a thing (way back when we were all kiddos) computers that ran 3D graphics were impressing the shit out of us, now we've got smart phones that do ten times as much without breaking a sweat. If you had an internet connection that didn't require you to monopolize a phone line you were doing alright for yourself.

If you were like me at the ripe age of 14, using a Windows 95 box, connecting to the internet via a 28.8k modem, you were hard-up for lengthy, engaging distractions, and chat-based RP, for many of us, filled that niche very very nicely. Plus, because most of us were/are nerds, the whole creative writing bit tickled our collective fancies.

The internet, and internet culture on the whole has evolved and changed over the last 20 years, and these days there is no shortage of vices for young impressionable nerds who want to world-build or act out their fantasies. Most of the youngsters I know tend to gravitate toward fanfiction when they want to exercise their creative sides, otherwise they're roped into the latest Steam game.

Whether my experiences match yours or not, my assertion is that the age of your average RPer on TK is steadily going up, and that's because there are so few "new" people discovering our archaic way of "playing pretend" ... is it any wonder the culture surrounding RP as we know it has gotten increasingly stale and derivative?

(*Also Karasu, not sure where you're getting your info there. As Rusti said, the Lounge wasn't evicted. Despite what some of the cocky braggarts around these parts might have you think, I voluntarily closed its doors and the small handful of 7 or 8 regulars simply moved elsewhere.)
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Karasu

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2015, 04:16:52 AM »

To Bane: Yeah making announcements tend to just look like you are seeking someone to go "NO DON'T LEAVE I CARE ABOUT YOU I SWEAR!" nobody really gives a shit on here apparently, and emotional investments are not something I recommend, especially if you feel the need to announce your leaving. It just seems mellow-dramatic especially when clearly nobody here even knows who the fuck this General Iowa guy is.

To Karasu: Contrary to popular belief I tend to second guess my own perceptions quite often. Hence why I made the obligatory "disclaimer" that maybe I'm just deluded.

I never even addressed wanting you to leave, or anything to do with you... Maybe you should get over yourself? Hell maybe I'm falling into the age old TK trap, but quite frankly Karasu I consider you nothing more than a gaudy vaguely self aware piece of furniture at this point. Right now for all intents and purposes I'm basically typing to a talking couch.

You quite literally just... went out of your way to address a statement that had nothing to do with you, made it about you, and then might have implied I was trying to censor you or something..? This is exactly the type of shit I'm talking about. We can certainly have a conversation if you want, but the second half of that statement was literally just you talking out the side of your mouth for the sake of simply trying to be passive aggressive... If you don't want to be productive fine, but don't be self righteous about it.

I am completely aware that maybe I just escalated this conversation needlessly, but seriously... This is why we can't have nice things. Maybe I'm a part of that reason too.

And here I'd thought PeeWee Herman's talking chair was forgot through time.
I'm glad you have such a view of me. It's still higher than my views vice versa.

As for the statement, it was more to claim that the last sentences of yours at being partisan as being problematic were issues.

Being partisan isn't an issue from where I stand, nor would it shut up a side or faction, that was the point I was trying to make. Given long blood between groups I'd have taken that one rather pointedly and personal. Unless you've made some healthy new enemies who are a faction or opposed to multiple views or more specifically your views given the remark.


Asanine : LL's up and going was rumor-milled as being around people like Zeke leaving by whatever means. Apologies then for my misunderstanding on the context of the leaving. Aside that the mainstay was a history of events and problems, but settling that most of the old ones are old and irrelevant to the newest. I still think the economy and generation there in are the seat of the newest climate of the chat. My own opinion, or as you hint at "Maybe it's x". One of many opinions or thoughts on the matter, not perfectly founded to exacting and infallible logic, but it's what it is. For all we know, I'm apparently a talking blue arm-chair.

S-Streak : Thanks for the update on the whole turn out of LL. Sadly we're all getting side tracked from the person leaving the chats. It's duly noted that the mediums and abilities there of within the mediums are changing, but a thought on the subject, if the chat's not shriveled up or died over the years through the Pentium age where graphics were the standard ruling measure for things, then possibly it'll have it's audiences and players still, and perhaps long after.
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MEGAMADMUSICIAN

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2015, 04:43:55 AM »

Am I the only one who sees an elephant in the room here?

RP, at least as we know it, is a dying hobby. When this was first a thing (way back when we were all kiddos) computers that ran 3D graphics were impressing the shit out of us, now we've got smart phones that do ten times as much without breaking a sweat. If you had an internet connection that didn't require you to monopolize a phone line you were doing alright for yourself.

If you were like me at the ripe age of 14, using a Windows 95 box, connecting to the internet via a 28.8k modem, you were hard-up for lengthy, engaging distractions, and chat-based RP, for many of us, filled that niche very very nicely. Plus, because most of us were/are nerds, the whole creative writing bit tickled our collective fancies.

The internet, and internet culture on the whole has evolved and changed over the last 20 years, and these days there is no shortage of vices for young impressionable nerds who want to world-build or act out their fantasies. Most of the youngsters I know tend to gravitate toward fanfiction when they want to exercise their creative sides, otherwise they're roped into the latest Steam game.

Whether my experiences match yours or not, my assertion is that the age of your average RPer on TK is steadily going up, and that's because there are so few "new" people discovering our archaic way of "playing pretend" ... is it any wonder the culture surrounding RP as we know it has gotten increasingly stale and derivative?

(*Also Karasu, not sure where you're getting your info there. As Rusti said, the Lounge wasn't evicted. Despite what some of the cocky braggarts around these parts might have you think, I voluntarily closed its doors and the small handful of 7 or 8 regulars simply moved elsewhere.)

It's not dying. Far from it. There are a crapton of tabletop gamers nowdays: More than I thought there were ever. Where our idea of online roleplay came from is -very- healthy. (Tabletop games. Let us not forget than many great ye olde RPers were tabletop and wargamer players.) In addition, sites such as RPOL (Forum-based RP.) and F-List (A sight that you roll to lose sanity every 10 minutes you're on it.) are doing MASSIVELY well. They are GAINING users. The statement of "RP is dying" is massively untrue.

A much more accurate statement is that TK is dying a slow, painful, drawn-out death. Why could be a multitude of things, but one being not in the least the fact that we're using a client that is like, from the 90s: And it shows. It seriously does show. Look at TK's client, than look at RPC's client, than look at RPH's client, than look at F-List's client. They function better, and are ironically more secure than TK's client. For fucks sake, some clients actually have -spellcheck- in them.

And the fact that people on TK are growing steadly more xenophobic, but after you've seen some of the train wrecks that have happened because people from offsite jumped onto TK and didn't understand what the rules and/or how people like to do things on TK are (Or just blatantly ignored them because they think they're special cookies) you can understand why they became xenophobic. But that means the few bad ones are ruining it for the other halfway decent ones. Still not good.
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Seldian

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2015, 12:41:36 PM »

There's just no passion for it on TK. Nobody comes to TK to write and experience other characters, they come-- at best-- to be paid attention to and look cool.

Most of TK's playerbase is dudes playing chicks and chicks playing dudes, trying to get with other chicks and dudes respectively. No, really...

It's because everyone's the most important one to themselves. There's not a lot of, "What can I write for this player?" Instead, they're all trying to find what others can give to them. It got real lonely, real fast as a result.

My galpal and I RP all the time. It's not about when she misspells something or when I run on a sentence. It's not about who's the better writer and whose character is cooler. It's about doing something fun. That used to be present on TK, and now you basically have to sign a waiver to RP with most people-- and most group RPs are just on borrowed time.

We even saw Tjolnir disappear. We figured his quest for a harem would continue into the cosmos and it didn't.

It's not that TK, nor RP on TK are dead or dying; it's that they've become the instagram, the twitter, the facebook of their former selves. They're about self-glorification and self-importance, and unless I'm missing some sort of secret society, there's just not a lot of investment in the actual writing as much as there is in being seen as impressive and/or unique.

If you feel targeted by this, you're both wrong and a dumbass. It's a statement, not a vindictive assault on someone. RP on TK became selfish, and as a result, the community-- its standing and joining members both-- seem to have shifted in that direction too.

now to wait for a million people to quoteblock this and tear it apart
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SilverStreak

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2015, 02:23:20 PM »


It's not dying. Far from it. There are a crapton of tabletop gamers nowdays: More than I thought there were ever. Where our idea of online roleplay came from is -very- healthy. (Tabletop games. Let us not forget than many great ye olde RPers were tabletop and wargamer players.) In addition, sites such as RPOL (Forum-based RP.) and F-List (A sight that you roll to lose sanity every 10 minutes you're on it.) are doing MASSIVELY well. They are GAINING users. The statement of "RP is dying" is massively untrue.

A much more accurate statement is that TK is dying a slow, painful, drawn-out death. Why could be a multitude of things, but one being not in the least the fact that we're using a client that is like, from the 90s: And it shows. It seriously does show. Look at TK's client, than look at RPC's client, than look at RPH's client, than look at F-List's client. They function better, and are ironically more secure than TK's client. For fucks sake, some clients actually have -spellcheck- in them.

And the fact that people on TK are growing steadly more xenophobic, but after you've seen some of the train wrecks that have happened because people from offsite jumped onto TK and didn't understand what the rules and/or how people like to do things on TK are (Or just blatantly ignored them because they think they're special cookies) you can understand why they became xenophobic. But that means the few bad ones are ruining it for the other halfway decent ones. Still not good.

I appreciate the insight, but I guess I'm not wholly convinced of a concrete link between the popularity of tabletop gaming and TK-flavored RP. Personally, I got into RP because of my interest in creative writing (which subsequently led to an interest in movies, and now, lo-and-behold a degree in Film, but that's literally another story.) Most of the tabletop gamers I know have very little interest in RP the way "we" do it, and vice-versa.

That said, however, your observations about the archaic nature of TK's very platform, along with (arguably justified) xenophobia are things I can agree hold a lot of merit.

However, I don't think you can point to kinkster hangouts like RPC or F-list and say "Look! RP isn't dying!"  I suppose for that matter I should also have clarified and specified "chat-based" RP when making my original talking point, since I will concede that I've seen RP exist on twitter and tumblr of all places. I just feel like it should be self-evident that forum/post based RP is a very different experience than chat-based RP, and I do genuinely believe that RP the way many of us came to practice it in our collective youth, is very much a dying practice.

RP, as a concept, still lives and breathes, having evolved with internet culture, but the way most of us came to know it, I maintain, is dying, leaving fewer and fewer people to practice it, which is the main reason IMHO that the culture surrounding it feels stale and homogeneous.

Perhaps that's a more precise way to explain what I mean?
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Dr. Javi

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2015, 03:50:11 PM »

literally just you talking out the side of your mouth
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Fenris

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2015, 05:32:32 PM »

Am I the only one who sees an elephant in the room here?

RP, at least as we know it, is a dying hobby. When this was first a thing (way back when we were all kiddos) computers that ran 3D graphics were impressing the shit out of us, now we've got smart phones that do ten times as much without breaking a sweat. If you had an internet connection that didn't require you to monopolize a phone line you were doing alright for yourself.

If you were like me at the ripe age of 14, using a Windows 95 box, connecting to the internet via a 28.8k modem, you were hard-up for lengthy, engaging distractions, and chat-based RP, for many of us, filled that niche very very nicely. Plus, because most of us were/are nerds, the whole creative writing bit tickled our collective fancies.

The internet, and internet culture on the whole has evolved and changed over the last 20 years, and these days there is no shortage of vices for young impressionable nerds who want to world-build or act out their fantasies. Most of the youngsters I know tend to gravitate toward fanfiction when they want to exercise their creative sides, otherwise they're roped into the latest Steam game.

Whether my experiences match yours or not, my assertion is that the age of your average RPer on TK is steadily going up, and that's because there are so few "new" people discovering our archaic way of "playing pretend" ... is it any wonder the culture surrounding RP as we know it has gotten increasingly stale and derivative?

(*Also Karasu, not sure where you're getting your info there. As Rusti said, the Lounge wasn't evicted. Despite what some of the cocky braggarts around these parts might have you think, I voluntarily closed its doors and the small handful of 7 or 8 regulars simply moved elsewhere.)

I don't think collaborative RP will ever die, people might have just gotten lazy and their tastes have changed. Why spend time trying to be creative and go through all the frustrating politics/creative differences of collaborative writing when you can just pick up an MMO? Theres also the fact that as previously mentioned most of the people who were around back-when just have lives now and don't have time to get on and roleplay.It's sad but I guess I can see that aspect of your point, though I think you are taking it a bit far, as at the end of the day roleplaying is nothing more than Collaborative writing, and there will always be writers. Roleplay is very much alive, there are plenty of forums, its chat based RP that might be dying.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:35:54 PM by Fenris »
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Karasu

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2015, 07:16:26 AM »

Am I the only one who sees an elephant in the room here?

RP, at least as we know it, is a dying hobby. When this was first a thing (way back when we were all kiddos) computers that ran 3D graphics were impressing the shit out of us, now we've got smart phones that do ten times as much without breaking a sweat. If you had an internet connection that didn't require you to monopolize a phone line you were doing alright for yourself.

If you were like me at the ripe age of 14, using a Windows 95 box, connecting to the internet via a 28.8k modem, you were hard-up for lengthy, engaging distractions, and chat-based RP, for many of us, filled that niche very very nicely. Plus, because most of us were/are nerds, the whole creative writing bit tickled our collective fancies.

The internet, and internet culture on the whole has evolved and changed over the last 20 years, and these days there is no shortage of vices for young impressionable nerds who want to world-build or act out their fantasies. Most of the youngsters I know tend to gravitate toward fanfiction when they want to exercise their creative sides, otherwise they're roped into the latest Steam game.

Whether my experiences match yours or not, my assertion is that the age of your average RPer on TK is steadily going up, and that's because there are so few "new" people discovering our archaic way of "playing pretend" ... is it any wonder the culture surrounding RP as we know it has gotten increasingly stale and derivative?

(*Also Karasu, not sure where you're getting your info there. As Rusti said, the Lounge wasn't evicted. Despite what some of the cocky braggarts around these parts might have you think, I voluntarily closed its doors and the small handful of 7 or 8 regulars simply moved elsewhere.)

I don't think collaborative RP will ever die, people might have just gotten lazy and their tastes have changed. Why spend time trying to be creative and go through all the frustrating politics/creative differences of collaborative writing when you can just pick up an MMO? Theres also the fact that as previously mentioned most of the people who were around back-when just have lives now and don't have time to get on and roleplay.It's sad but I guess I can see that aspect of your point, though I think you are taking it a bit far, as at the end of the day roleplaying is nothing more than Collaborative writing, and there will always be writers. Roleplay is very much alive, there are plenty of forums, its chat based RP that might be dying.

This said on a forum that hosts almost no activity of roleplay other than drama and politics, whilst it's chat half does far better than it does.
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"All who stand before me will fall, all who lay behind me know this well."
"Names? How fickle and odd. You are my people and here we stand together as one."

Auvic

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2015, 06:41:03 PM »

I continue to hope that we'll get a new and improved(tm) chat someday, and when we do, people will realize just how much better RPing in a chat is compared to forums and messengers.

#faith

OG OG OG OG OG OG BEAT SKT
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Karasu

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2015, 07:00:48 PM »

I continue to hope that we'll get a new and improved(tm) chat someday, and when we do, people will realize just how much better RPing in a chat is compared to forums and messengers.

#faith

OG OG OG OG OG OG BEAT SKT

I'd second that.
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"All who stand before me will fall, all who lay behind me know this well."
"Names? How fickle and odd. You are my people and here we stand together as one."

Soja

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2015, 08:29:01 PM »

There's honestly no activity on this forum until someone has been told to shut up in chat and they need somewhere to cry about it.

And even before the database upheaval last year, it was that way. The story and PBP forums were dead. And you know what? Even before that were the story boards and PBP boards dead, when this chat was hosted on WebRPG. It's pretty much an unreliable indicator of in-chat activity.

That said, we can only ascertain the pulse of the groups that speak up. There's a multitude of small cloistered groups in TK, insular and suspicious of newcomers. This is, honestly (maybe sadly), part of the appeal of TK. Freeform here has, as far as I can remember, been somewhat narcissistic. Before accounts, before profiles, we'd have a macro saved that had some kind of infodump description of oneself. Some were benign, but many were obnoxious and self-aggrandizing. As cloyingly aggravating as I find all the profiles that make that person's character out to be the best thing since sliced bread to be, I've come to the slow realization that in some ways it has always been that way. I'm not saying it's good, but just that it's never been much better than this; there are just more avenues for that release. People take up RP for various reasons. Playing out a unapproachable personal fantasy is one, whatever that may entail. We have a term for those: Mary Sues.

Sorry you feel that way Darklord, but to be honest, many of us thought you'd already called it quits for the meatrealm's concerns.
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Averus

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2015, 10:40:12 PM »

Lack of advertisement and a chat engine that's about 15 years old is a big part of the problem too.

At this point it's either get new blood in here and put up with huge server costs because of an outdated software setup, or replace the engine and then deal with a tiny population. But with the crash and the lack of backups and the fact WJ doesn't seem to have time to spend on this place chances are tK will just wither away like CC did, to be honest.
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Fenris

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Re: Staying around here
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2015, 10:52:46 AM »

To Karasu: Oh okay, I guess since TK follows a different paradigm, that must hold true for everywhere. Google is your friend, I guarantee you will find plenty of active-forums before you find a single chat. Or you might find a single-chat which is mostly forum based. Or Just fuck man, stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

Soja: Yeah most people just use the forums if they feel like being dramatic or to fuck with certain people. Free-Form sucks now cause everyone wants to eat, nobody wants to be eaten, and nobody wants to put in the effort of being able to apply a powerful character, and or think their ideas are inherently infallible and then somehow think they can apply arbitrarily rules they made up to satisfy an ego trip to everyone they interact with. Which results in scenes like....

Some folks are just chilling somewhere, lets say the forest or w/e. And this gang of bandits happens upon them, blah blah blah, and when all seems lost, one of the people in the victim group goes. "AAEEEGHH! why did you leave me daddy!? CRAWWWLINNGGG INNNN MAAAIII SKINNNN!" *The sky opens up and a giant lance of inter-dimensional corruption-lightning destroys all bandits. Gary then expects everyone to just accept it cause he's the main character. : /
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 11:06:07 AM by Fenris »
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